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Re:The Amazon worker: paid £18,000 a year to shift 250 items... by linkmotif on Saturday January 20, 2018 @12:52PM (#16194391)
> Amazon could easily afford to hire more people for the workload but instead they choose to squeeze everything out of existing employees.

That’s just not the Titan of Industry mentality. And the Titan of Industry mentality is required to build a company like Amazon. And everyone buys from Amazon because they offer the lowest price and the greatest convenience.

It’s got nothing to do with whether he could hire more people. It’s that whether it’s the Pyramids or Versailles or Amazon, humans are largely drawn to these things that represent or require the toil and suffering of invisible anonymous masses. It’s weird, but it seems fundamental to humanity. It’s always made me question the compatibility of humans with “human rights.” We fundamentally don’t value these things. At least we prioritize symbols of collective greatness to individual human experience.

Re:The Amazon worker: paid £18,000 a year to shift 250 items... by zaroth on Saturday January 20, 2018 @01:08PM (#16194487)
Pyramids? Versailles? That is an absurd comparison — working conditions here are orders of magnitude better on every possible scale, he is getting paid good money which he is taking to the bank, and we’re talking what 50 hours a week of work? Plenty of leisure time to keep learning and striving and bettering oneself. Healthy 24 year old male with a functioning brain complaining that life is hard work? Give me a break.

The market provides a pretty damn diverse set of job opportunities. It turns out that shuffling boxes doesn’t require any intelligence and therefore doesn’t pay well. The problem is not that there are entry level jobs to shuffle boxes. Take those away and then this guy doesn’t just have a loser job, he has no job at all.

Make Amazon pay humans more to shuffle boxes and they’ll just have more incentive to buy better robots. Pay humans what it’s worth to shuffle boxes and the smart and motivated ones won’t be shuffling boxes for very long at all. Because it turns out if you have a brain you decide it’s better to learn a marketable skill in your off time instead of playing video games.

This guy has no need for current income. He says his expenses are about 100/mo. He should be working his 50 hours a week and then putting another 50 hours into coursework if he doesn’t like the job he’s got.

His government benefits which he doesn’t want to lose would (or should) not lapse if he has 40 hours of work AND/OR accredited coursework. If he loses benefits for choosing schooling over labor then that is a policy that should be fixed.

There are a lot of societal pressure which is putting 24 year old males in their parents basement working dead-end jobs and playing video games. But very very little of the blame sits on Amazon’s shoulders if you ask me. There are a lot of controversial social theories on the way we’ve been talking to and about adolescent men are driving them into these low self esteem self-defeating positions, and it’s certainly a growing demographic and a big problem. Look at labor participation rates for 20-30 yr old men, for example. Again, Amazon is providing a service here, not the villain of the story.

Re:The Amazon worker: paid £18,000 a year to shift 250 items... by fogzen on Saturday January 20, 2018 @01:16PM (#16194530)
Sure, he could have it worse in that he could be like many others in his position but without parental support. How would he be able to work 50 hours a week and physically go to school 50 hours a week? Amazon controls his hours not him. School controls course hours not him. School also doesn't necessarily lead to a better job. It also costs money. If he wasn't living at home it would cost at least the same amount he's making from Amazon.

What do you do for a living, may I ask? Do you have a college education in your field of work? Who paid for it? Who paid your rent, food, and other expenses while you attended school?

Re:The Amazon worker: paid £18,000 a year to shift 250 items... by jsjohnst on Saturday January 20, 2018 @01:34PM (#16194645)
> School also doesn't necessarily lead to a better job.

Right, because a degree is worthless if you didn’t learn something applicable to the job you want afterwards. To many kids these days go to college, party and have fun, get a b/s degree, then wonder why they are basically screwed afterward and in a mountain of debt. Not everyone should go to college, trade schools have a bad stigma when really they are the right avenue for many young people.

> Do you have a college education in your field of work?

Yes

> Who paid for it?

Me, and without loans too. Admittedly I went in the mid 90s when prices were more realistic, but I also chose to go to a not big name state school and I worked my ass off in a job while in school to pay for it.

> Who paid your rent, food, and other expenses while you attended school?

Me, myself, and I. It wasn’t easy, but I also was raised with a strong work ethic and realized if I wanted to advance I had to do more than others, not just be average.

While GP’s tone was a bit confrontational, I feel yours is just as toxic. Putting in 50 hours in classes on top of 50 hours work is unrealistic for most, but 15-20hrs isn’t. Yes, it’ll take longer to advance, but it’s still doable. Many of the points GP made re: how young male generations were raised are sadly very on point and you should try to have an open mind and not just snap back.

Re:The Amazon worker: paid £18,000 a year to shift 250 items... by linkmotif on Saturday January 20, 2018 @03:27PM (#16195234)
> Admittedly I went in the mid 90s when prices were more realistic

They were nonesense then too.

Re:The Amazon worker: paid £18,000 a year to shift 250 items... by UncleEntity on Saturday January 20, 2018 @03:48PM (#16195344)
$6 a credit with a $60 cap to do almost all my lower-division coursework before I went off to university isn't all that bad if you ask me.

Yep, the '90s were "gangsta" as the kids say...

Re:The Amazon worker: paid £18,000 a year to shift 250 items... by zaroth on Saturday January 20, 2018 @03:03PM (#16195136)
I worked full time, while living in an apartment (which I shared with 2 other people) since I was 18. From 19-25 I took classes, about half of them online and the other half on campus — since at the time it wasn’t possible to earn a true Bachelors degree fully online.

My company paid for a portion of my tuition, the rest I paid myself as I went. A semester of courses cost, by my recollection, about $10k. But that would be regardless of if you took 3, 4, or 5 classes. So naturally I went to the Dean and got special permission to take 6 classes per semester. Combined with transferring half my credits from dirt cheap online classes I graduated after only paying for 4 semesters, about $50k total, $20k of which was expensed on the corporate card, all spread over 5-6 years.

My job at the time was technically an “internship” at Cisco Systems, paid $14/hour. I would typically log about 80 a week though, and it was all time-and-a-half after 40 and double-time after 60 hours a week, so effective pay was higher.

My GPA was shit, but it didn’t matter. No one has ever asked, and I got the degree. The amount of learning from being in the labs at Cisco working with core routers and coding IOS dwarfed anything I learned at college anyway.

Everyone told me I needed the diploma. But since then I’ve never had to so much as write a resume, after that first fluff piece I wrote to get into Cisco. In my case the degree was a massive waste of time and money, but so it goes.

Obviously I was massively lucky and privlidged to get into Cisco at 18, but staying there full time for several years and having them pay part of my tuition was because I worked my ass off for that $14/hr and was one of the most productive members of my team. By the time I left they had all but shut down the internship program and HR was afraid I was going to sue them for misclassifying me, but I was very happy to have had the opportunity.

Re:The Amazon worker: paid £18,000 a year to shift 250 items... by linkmotif on Saturday January 20, 2018 @02:31PM (#16194965)
I agree with this. You couldn't find a person who more strongly laments the toll that Netflix/video games have taken on my generation. I've seen the best minds of my generation destroyed by Netflix and video games. It's horrifying.

I was just responding to the GP, who was wondering why Bezos doesn't just pay him more.

Re:The Amazon worker: paid £18,000 a year to shift 250 items... by walshemj on Saturday January 20, 2018 @02:40PM (#16195015)
Trouble in previous generation it was television or comics let alone DnD turning kids into demon worshipers.
Re:The Amazon worker: paid £18,000 a year to shift 250 items... by linkmotif on Saturday January 20, 2018 @02:58PM (#16195107)
It's been a steady decline since after WWII. You joke by introducing comics, DnD. But all these things are symptomatic of a society in which young people are the products of leisure, of not knowing or caring where things come from or their value. Television in particular. A world of watchers, wasting their lives.
Re:The Amazon worker: paid £18,000 a year to shift 250 items... by walshemj on Saturday January 20, 2018 @03:28PM (#16195237)
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers"

Socrates :-)

Re:The Amazon worker: paid £18,000 a year to shift 250 items... by linkmotif on Saturday January 20, 2018 @05:33PM (#16195798)
Good stuff :)
Re:The Amazon worker: paid £18,000 a year to shift 250 items... by UncleEntity on Saturday January 20, 2018 @03:56PM (#16195386)
I know, right?

Makes the WWI peeps (who literally lost a generation) problems pale in comparison.

Re:The Amazon worker: paid £18,000 a year to shift 250 items... by linkmotif on Saturday January 20, 2018 @05:29PM (#16195781)
I wasn’t kidding. Not sure what’s worse, WWI or the leisure industrial complex. All these gamers might as well be dead. They don’t do anything, they have no skills, they won’t reproduce.
Re:The Amazon worker: paid £18,000 a year to shift 250 items... by CapacitorSet on Saturday January 20, 2018 @01:05PM (#16194474)
>humans are largely drawn to these things that represent or require the toil and suffering of invisible anonymous masses. It’s weird, but it seems fundamental to humanity.

Consumers are largely drawn to low-cost products, which require the exploitation of masses. It is fundamental to capitalism, but not to humanity.

Re:The Amazon worker: paid £18,000 a year to shift 250 items... by vixen99 on Saturday January 20, 2018 @02:08PM (#16194835)
Well, poor people tend to be drawn to low-cost products or do without. I wonder what you'd prefer the masses to be doing as against producing those goods?

Capitalism enables global wealth re-distribution. Thus were 500 million Chinese lifted out of poverty from 1981 to 2012 (World Bank figures) thanks to consumers who've bought the products of their industry. Most of us have helped in that respect.

Almost all of humanity lived for thousand of years in miserable and degrading poverty; the life of even the very rich two hundred years ago and later would be considered a low grade existence by a great majority of ordinary people today and not just in the West.

Re:The Amazon worker: paid £18,000 a year to shift 250 items... by gonyea on Saturday January 20, 2018 @01:01PM (#16194447)
Amazon is wildly expensive compared with Target and Costco. Its success is convenience and extensive product reviews.
Re:The Amazon worker: paid £18,000 a year to shift 250 items... by erikig on Saturday January 20, 2018 @01:19PM (#16194551)
I find this claim hard to believe - what products are you using to make the comparison?