The thing for me is that, if I were living in that area, I'd be driving into the Santa Cruz mountains, Big Sur, the Sierras, etc. all the time. Which you really can't do unless you drive or someone else drives you.

Heh. My wife & in-laws went with me to watch the Perseids in the Santa Cruz mountains. While we were there, we met a couple young women who had Ubered in from San Francisco. They got there fine, but there was no cell reception where we were, so their apps didn't work, so they were trying to find someone to hitchhike home with. We had a full car (and were going the other way) so we couldn't take them, but I hope they managed to get home safely.

Sure, and if I shared your hobbies, I'd probably have trouble wrapping my head around how people could live without a license too.

For me, the natural areas would be pretty much the only reason I could possibly think of that would make me even consider living in the Bay Area.

That's my main use of the car in California, trips to local hills to hike and monthly trips to the Sierra/other outdoor places.

Renting a car is actually very cheap once you turn 25. Renting a car on the weekends, every weekend is also cheaper than owning a car.

Sure. Subject to the other reasons you may want your own vehicle. But the discussion was about not having a driver's license. I fully agree that, for a lot of people, using some combination of rentals, Zipcar, and ride hail services makes a lot of sense.

Or do a tour. Or cycle. It feels good enjoying those areas and not polluting them.

I'm surprised - most bars I know either don't card because they're upscale enough to not worry about minors, or they don't accept any expired ID (or sometimes even other states). In Texas, a state ID can be issued that is identical to a DL but with a different title. Costs something like $10-20.

Or get your passport, but that's $160 with the book + card.

I've been using my Passport (card) and that was convenient, however I lost my wallet recently - I've been using my Passport, but if I were to lose that, then I'd be a bit more worried.

As far as carding goes, it depends on the establishment. Most bars I go to, don't card, but when they do it's a situation that can mess up your night.

You can also get a state ID; that way you can uphold your no license principle as well as get into bars.

But if I went all the way to the DMV for a state ID and there was no appointment required for a drive test I'd just get a license.

You could get a passport card too, it's only $55.

OP: >I've been using my Passport (card) and that was convenient, however I lost my wallet recently

I was told by a bouncer that this is not technically a valid ID for bars in WA, though was let in.

How is a federal ID with photo and DOB not a valid ID?? Holy heck.

FYI, you can get a California ID card; identical to a driver license without the permission to drive.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/idinfo/idcard