Re:Debunking the tragedy of the commons (2008)
by frabbit on Monday January 15, 2018 @07:41PM
(#16154870)
It's not arguing that "no one would be selfish enough". It's arguing that "if someone is selfish enough and everyone has control, then the negative feedback to the selfishness is effective."
"Privatization or local ownership" is a non-useful formulation. It mixes together two distinct ideas.
"Socialist" countries for the most part do not and have not existed: they have all been state capitalist. The comparison being made in this critique is between resource in which (to use Taleb's phrase) those with skin in the game get to make the decisions and those which don't.
Re:Debunking the tragedy of the commons (2008)
by dnautics on Monday January 15, 2018 @12:04PM
(#16151734)
5a. I think the NOx and SOx auctioning markets are also a great example of privatization schemes that have been wildly successful (there's basically no acid rain in the US anymore). There's an argument out there that privatization in these two markets has been no better than regulation, I mean but it's almost a silly argument, because in the US regulation had zero buy-in, but privatization was acted on, so it got the job done.
I would make a couple of points.
1. This article quotes Marx unironically as an argument.
2. Even if I bought the argument that commons were actually great and capitalism ruined them, Tragedy of the Commons is still a useful way to describe collective action problems.
3. Corporations choose long term viability over short term profits all of the time. (A great example is Gifford Pinchot convincing the US lumber industry that it was in their interest to effectively manage forests long term).
4. Community ownership is not the same as government ownership.
5. There are cases where privatization or local ownership can lead to great outcomes: (https://www.npr.org/2011/10/10/140445502/to-save-wildlife-na...)
I feel like framing environmental problems on capitalism is a big mistake (socialist countries arguably have had much, much worse track records). Good environmental policy is usually just that - good policy; not overtly socialist or capitalist.