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Re:City of Barcelona moving away from proprietary software by snvzz on Monday January 15, 2018 @09:03AM (#16150524)
I'm Catalan. Catalonia has always been big on open source, and if anything I'm surprised this took so long to happen. The mindshare in universities and such is particularly high, and this isn't limited to computer science (my background). Even my high school did at the very least run a Linux server (running at least samba and squid) and had a few Linux workstations. This was 20 years ago. Back when I lived there, I worked in many companies, all of which had near 100% of workstations running Linux, something I now realize is not the case elsewhere.

A strong argument nobody's mentioned in the thread yet is that free software support for our language (Catalan) is very good, whereas Windows/OSX support for it is terrible when it exists at all. There's the fact that we do still remember a previous effort where Microsoft released some version of windows in Catalan, I'm not sure if it was 98 or XP era, which was very broken; Microsoft never handled the issues back then, or released any more versions in Catalan, and it left a very bad taste in our mouths.

We do care massively about our language, so it'll be very hard to sway anybody in here unless this fact radically changes.

Re:City of Barcelona moving away from proprietary software by kiliancs on Monday January 15, 2018 @12:39PM (#16152006)
Also Catalan, and confirming my professional experience in Catalonia was mostly open source, with the exception of a few multinational corporations that preferred Windows and of graphic designers (mac).

I just wanted to point out that you can use Windows 10 in Catalan. The language pack may be installed directly from the language preferences dialog. Support for Office also exists.

In another note, more frustrating for me is how many websites don't respect my browser's language preferences. I prefer Catalan, and English otherwise --BTW if you feel like criticizing this option, which I am completely entitled to, take into account that I live abroad and my kids don't understand Spanish, or the case of people in Northern Catalonia who certainly shouldn't be expected to understand Spanish--, but I keep getting Spanish instead of English when Catalan is not available. We also keep getting ads in Spanish that completely miss the target audience.

Google also really thinks that I will be really interested in contents from the Spanish Wikipedia by preferring it over the equivalent Catalan or English articles, even when it doesn't literally match my search query.

Oh, and my "OK Google" search in Android has the funnies behavior. Let's take a simple question about the weather as an example.

- With Catalan as the search language -> ask in Catalan -> no information about the weather - With Catalan as the search language -> ask in English -> information about the weather in Spanish. Some of the search UI is in Catalan and some in Spanish, including the actual weather information. Voice response is in Spanish.

So I have to use English, which is fine, but just shows how in terms of l18n we still have a long way to go.

Re:City of Barcelona moving away from proprietary software by nofilter on Monday January 15, 2018 @09:20AM (#16150633)
Well, I'm Estonian living in Barcelona. A lot of things never bother to add Estonian support because we're such a tiny nation (like iOS, for example) which means our English is rather good. Good English is not something I've encountered much in Catalonia, so while yes I agree that having your country's technology work in your language is a must, it's also in my opinion a double-edged sword making more and more local people not speak English.
Re:City of Barcelona moving away from proprietary software by snvzz on Monday January 15, 2018 @09:41AM (#16150751)
I understand what you're saying but keep in mind that when Catalan is not available, the language that tends to be used isn't English, but Spanish.

Knowledge of Spanish in Catalonia is not by any metric bad.

Re:City of Barcelona moving away from proprietary software by nofilter on Monday January 15, 2018 @10:17AM (#16150979)
Yes, fallback is Spanish indeed. But I'm a young guy, I got to clubs a lot and most people I meet there are between 20 and 30 and having very hard time speaking in English. Which makes me amazed, especially in Barcelona, which is a very international city. The same problem is in France. It might be due the fact that most of the media never displays any English. Movies are over-voiced in Spanish and so forth. I have no sources to back this claim, it's just my theory.
Re:City of Barcelona moving away from proprietary software by JBlue42 on Monday January 15, 2018 @01:51PM (#16152502)
Yeah, it's interesting how just having subtitled media can help. When traveling, I came across an older guy in Viljandi who had learned his basic English from watching Melrose Place reruns.
Re:City of Barcelona moving away from proprietary software by Oletros on Monday January 15, 2018 @11:09AM (#16151322)
yes, almost all the movies and TV shows are dubbed in Spanish, it makes English proficiency in Spain very bad
Re:City of Barcelona moving away from proprietary software by ZeroGravitas on Monday January 15, 2018 @09:58AM (#16150860)
And spanish is one of the top used languages in the world.

A quick Google suggest it has a) more native speakers than English, b) more total speakers than English, with only Chinese ahead of it.

That must dampen enthusiasm for learning other languages.

Re:City of Barcelona moving away from proprietary software by HelloNurse on Monday January 15, 2018 @11:19AM (#16151382)
For political and historical reasons that don't need to be discussed all over again, many people are bilingual but make a point of writing, speaking and demanding Catalan. They might be resigned to Spanish-speaking tourists, but much less tolerant in more official contexts (like software localization choices).
Re:City of Barcelona moving away from proprietary software by hyperpower on Monday January 15, 2018 @09:45AM (#16150770)
Why is that a problem though? Should people in an arbitrary country need to learn English?

Also, could you provide a source for the fact that English literacy rates are actually decreasing? I find that difficult to believe.

Re:City of Barcelona moving away from proprietary software by nofilter on Monday January 15, 2018 @10:26AM (#16151029)
That's not a problem if you never want to communicate with people from countries where they don't speak Spanish nor learn Spanish in schools. It is a problem however if it's an international city like Barcelona and most people I've met between 20 and 30 have very hard time understanding or speaking English.

I didn't say the English literacy rates are decreasing, I'm simply stating that they speak a whole more English in the north than in the south as far as young people go and it generally surprises me how bad English among young people here is. Is it because while they do learn English in schools, they don't practice it enough? Certainly can't be the case in Barcelona, right?

Re:City of Barcelona moving away from proprietary software by snvzz on Monday January 15, 2018 @09:50AM (#16150811)
I don't see where he said it's decreasing.

And as I understand it, it's improving. Catalonia's fortunate in that most people are bilingual to begin with, which is known to ease the introduction of other languages considerably.

Re:City of Barcelona moving away from proprietary software by khaled on Monday January 15, 2018 @11:11AM (#16151332)
Why the locals not speaking English is a bad thing?
Re:City of Barcelona moving away from proprietary software by unmango on Monday January 15, 2018 @09:16AM (#16150612)
People in universities (both staff and students) are always left-leaning; the mindshare of Linux in universities has always been big everywhere, it's not really a Catalan thing. Because of that, I'm not surprised they are enthusiastic about the Catalan language either, but that's not the case anywhere else, where people usually run their software and enjoy their entertainment in Spanish without making a big deal about the language.

I also believe Windows 10 has a good Catalan translation although I have never used it.

Re:City of Barcelona moving away from proprietary software by interfixus on Monday January 15, 2018 @09:32AM (#16150701)
Are you equating support for open source with left-leaningness?
Re:City of Barcelona moving away from proprietary software by unmango on Monday January 15, 2018 @09:39AM (#16150737)
Yes, I am. That's what matches my personal experience.
Re:City of Barcelona moving away from proprietary software by jeanrene on Monday January 15, 2018 @06:07PM (#16154285)
Open-source boosts competition in capitalism. Open-source makes it easier for startups to offer services and create products, for instance. Open-source breaks monopolies. In other words, Open-source is capitalism in its finest.
Re:City of Barcelona moving away from proprietary software by snvzz on Monday January 15, 2018 @09:53AM (#16150830)
It does however not match mine (and I'm Catalan). We've got university professors of all walks of life with all sorts of views. However, it is true that I've yet to meet one that wasn't favorable to open source.
Re:City of Barcelona moving away from proprietary software by interfixus on Monday January 15, 2018 @09:50AM (#16150808)
Well, at least I, and presumably Eric Raymond, beg to differ.