Re:A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists
by michaelt on Wednesday January 10, 2018 @07:33AM
(#16114463)
waiting in a queue of traffic at a light or junction
is very dangerous for a cyclist
When I'm approaching traffic lights and there's a queue of traffic and no bike box, I stop my bike at the tail of the queue, in the middle of the lane - just like I would on my motorbike or in my car.I'm curious as to what you think the danger is in that situation?
Re:A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists
by lmm on Wednesday January 10, 2018 @08:12AM
(#16114648)
A driver coming up behind you as you're starting to set off ( or immediately after you've fallen down) when the queue ahead of you is already moving. Somehow you tend to blend into the queue visually - the driver doesn't see you as separate from the vehicle in front of you, and doesn't realise you're still there when the vehicle starts moving (or does realise you're there, but rushes past you unsafely) - and the risk of falling over is much higher as you're starting off than at any other point.
Re:A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists
by michaelt on Wednesday January 10, 2018 @04:46PM
(#16119411)
Personally I see running red lights as a much higher accident risk than drivers of stationary vehicles failing to see me when I'm stopped right in front of them.
Re:A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists
by lmm on Thursday January 11, 2018 @04:25AM
(#16122483)
It's not the stationary drivers I'd worry about, it's those arriving behind them.
"Running red lights" with no further context seems to describe something extremely dangerous, but many specific classes of running red lights are completely safe.
Re:A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists
by elbows on Wednesday January 10, 2018 @08:04AM
(#16114614)
Depends on the length of the queue. I find if I'm too far back from the intersection, cars will get up to speed and want to overtake me before I get through. If I continue to take the lane the driver behind me is likely to start honking and/or pass me dangerously. If I move over then I risk getting hooked as I go through the intersection.
So I find that it's usually safer to filter to the front at intersections. Even in the absence of a bike box I can squeeze into the crosswalk and get ahead of the lead car, allowing me to go safely through.
Re:A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists
by kqr on Wednesday January 10, 2018 @07:57AM
(#16114578)
I'm also surprised by that. I do not feel safe trying to filter through traffic unless I know the light periods very well. And in a queue is one of the places I feel safest starting and stopping. I can accept an argument about how a slow bicycle is wobbly, but from a pure power standpoint, there is much less acceleration involved in a queue than in many other cases. If motorists have a problem with cyclists, its often about acceleration.
Re:A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists
by justjash on Wednesday January 10, 2018 @09:10AM
(#16114967)
I generally wait with the traffic also when there is no bike lane/box. The only thing I ever worry about is getting hit from behind by some idiot not paying attention. I do try to mitigate this by turning my bike at an angle so that I look a little bigger.
This is all dependent on the traffic/intersection though, things vary depending on the circumstances.
Cyclists running up the inside mostly happens because waiting in a queue of traffic at a light or junction is very dangerous for a cyclist; stopping and starting are inherently dangerous and made much more so when you're starting in the middle of a queue that's anxious to start moving. In many cases road design endorses this - you'll see junctions with a cycle lane on the left running up to the light, and cyclists are expected to pass on the left even when a vehicle in line is turning left.
The solution that I've seen work best is a marked cycle-only box immediately before the junction - that provides cyclists a place to wait for the light, but it also makes for a clear dividing line between the section where cyclists are expected to pass the queue on the left versus the entry into the junction where that would be unsafe. Unfortunately cars often occupy those boxes and are seemingly not penalised for doing so. More of those boxes and more enforcement of those that exist would help, IMO, as would giving cyclists a dedicated light phase (as is done at e.g. some of the junctions on CS2) to let them clear the junction before motorists enter.
In terms of Bank specifically, it's an outlier: it's an extremely complex junction (7 roads) that simply has too much traffic demand for the space available. The junction has now been restricted to buses, cycles and pedestrians only during the daytime, and there's talk of removing the buses as well. That's appropriate: it's both safer and more efficient in terms of person throughput than allowing cars to use the very limited space there.