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Re:The Struggling Artist at 86 by brudgers on Monday January 08, 2018 @09:16AM (#16096820)
Unlike real portfolios, the Dow Jones Industrial Average gets to replace losers with winners. Dropped by the DJI since 2008 are:

+ Alitra, Honeywell for BOA and Chevron: Remember Honeywell?

+ AIG for Kraft Foods: AIG was worth close to $0 and Kraft was worth something and so the DJI went up because averaging in something is better than averaging in nothing.

+ Citigroup, GM for Cisco and Travelers: GM was at about $10 and getting bailed out by the government. Consumer spending was down for Citi. The internet was exploding and Travelers had cash reserves to invest in the down market.

+ Kraft for United Health Group. More money in fixing the problems that come from eating Cheez Whiz than selling it.

+ Alcoa, BOA, HP for Goldman Sachs, Nike, Visa. Remember HP?

+ ATT for Apple: Replacing the ~$50 ATT with the ~$500 Apple made the average go up. If you can swap out shares in your portfolio similarly, my advice is to do so.

The conventional advice is to play the market because the DJI is up. It doesn't explain how the DJI works and that you can't replicate its performance. And if you are retired, you have to live off the money and the size of your pile is shrinking not growing. The conventional advice comes from an industry that has no problem using your life savings for its own purposes.

Re:The Struggling Artist at 86 by rileymat2 on Monday January 08, 2018 @09:27AM (#16096893)
I am not claiming the Dow is a ideal index I used it for its name brand, however Here is a link to a comparison to .DJI and VTI (Vanguard Total Stock Market)

https://finance.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chd...

You will notice a negligible difference, all of my points stand.

Re:The Struggling Artist at 86 by brudgers on Monday January 08, 2018 @11:13AM (#16097706)
Here's the 10year https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/snapshot?FundIntExt=I...

If a person had bought into it in 2007, they would have done reasonably well...a little worse than 7% per year compounded. All that a person needed was an oracle to pick a winner. On the other hand, the ten year from 1999 to 2009 would not have looked so good and it's not providing DJI like increases in value because the DJI is Public Relations not finance (that's why it doesn't indicate when to make money as a bear).

Keep in mind that in terms of retirement, pensions looked good and in 1992 when the Vangard fund became available the artist was already sixty-two years old. There's no guarantee that today's Vanguard Fund will look as attractive in twenty, thirty or forty years when the people following conventional retirement advice have to cash in their chips. The fund performed better than average.

Finally, people lost their jobs in the downturn and often had to dip into retirement savings to keep themselves afloat. Even with a time machine, it isn't possible for many people to have timed the market perfectly by investing heavily at the 2009 trough. That's the smoke and hand waving that the conventional financial advice uses to dismiss actual individual circumstances...well that and the idea that poverty reflects a lack of virtue.