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Re:Tesla's Model 3 volume production target pushed back again by Robotbeat on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @05:59PM (#16066253)
Right. And looking at SpaceX also shows the futility of looking at initial production rate as indicative of long-term production rate. SpaceX got 2 launches off in 2010, zero in 2011. ULA and Ariane and Russia were laughing at them and mocking the idea of reuse and recovery.

SpaceX launched 18 last year, all successfully, more than any other rocket. All recovery attempts succeeded, and several rockets were reflown. Their competitors have had to cut their workforce and are now feverishly trying to catch up with new designs (most of which are inadequate for even the current Falcon 9, let alone future rockets). The line between laughing stock and huge success is pretty small if you're in the exponential ramp-up phase.

Re:Tesla's Model 3 volume production target pushed back again by hyperbovine on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @07:08PM (#16066750)
Sorry but what does building five rockets in a quarter have to do with any of this? ("Elon Musk" is not a valid answer.) The auto factory mentioned in the article is set up do to 400,000 cars a year. They are completely different problems. If you've never seen it in person before, the level of automation required to mass produce automobiles is really something. Have a look at the two factory floors. There are nothing alike:

http://www.spacex.com/news/2013/09/24/production-spacex http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-electric/g877/ta...

Re:Tesla's Model 3 volume production target pushed back again by Robotbeat on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @09:57PM (#16067656)
I forgive you. You missed the point, which is that the line between "laughing stock" and "industry dominance" is pretty fine when you're still in the exponential ramp-up period of something, whatever that "something" is.

The production rate is clearly changing from week to week, month to month (increasing at a decent clip on a percentage basis). As long as that is happening, they're still in the ramp-up phase.

Re:Tesla's Model 3 volume production target pushed back again by lutorm on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @09:00PM (#16067378)
That SpaceX page is over 4 years old. That was back when "production" meant a few rockets per year. (Not that the volume is anywhere comparable even today.)
Re:Tesla's Model 3 volume production target pushed back again by pweissbrod on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @06:59PM (#16066690)
What I gathered from this conversation was to bet on the longer term success of tesla but leave their first few generation mass-produced models to the die hard fans
Re:Tesla's Model 3 volume production target pushed back again by ryankupyn on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @07:11PM (#16066768)
Same here, though that is conditional on a friendly environment for financing to reach the longer term.

And it also assumes that skill in the (relatively) low volume production of rockets can be transferred to mass production of cars.

Re:Tesla's Model 3 volume production target pushed back again by nabla9 on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @07:11PM (#16066769)
Tesla's bet with Model 3 has no room for long term if it fails.

If Model 3 is not a success money runs out. There will be large changes in the ownership. Musk might sell Tesla to some other manufacturer etc.

Re:Tesla's Model 3 volume production target pushed back again by erikpukinskis on Thursday January 04, 2018 @10:02AM (#16070743)
The entire car part of Tesla’s business could disappear and it would still have a story for shareholders in stationary storage alone. They’ve said half of their battery production will go there. Think about what that means for revenue.

The Semi is a huge market.

And even if Model 3 didn’t exist and Tesla pushed itself as developing Model S as the number one car for self driving mobility services, they’d still have a claim at the lions share of the automotive market. Vehicle cost is a much smaller concern in the post-self-driving world.

Let’s imagine Model 3 only pulls Model S numbers, and their annual production only goes to 200k by 2020. I don’t think that’s enough to see a total collapse of the stock the way you seem to be suggesting.

I think Elon has many more cards in play than you let on.

Re:Tesla's Model 3 volume production target pushed back again by nabla9 on Thursday January 04, 2018 @10:08AM (#16070812)
Is this your personal toughts and hopes or real analysis?

I have yet to see any financial analysis based on Tesla financial that don't see Model 3 as a critical.

Re:Tesla's Model 3 volume production target pushed back again by duhast on Thursday January 04, 2018 @01:38AM (#16068495)
I couldn't find exact numbers but it seems like Must owns around 20% of Tesla. Some shares are locked down and secure around 1.6B of loans from Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley.

Not sure if Musk will be actually making any decisions here when things go south.