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Re:German hate speech law tested as Twitter blocks satire ac... by nine_k on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @05:20PM (#16065840)
It would be naive to ascribe Nazi propaganda alone the role of the fire starter in WWII. The problem is that the Nazi propaganda fell on ears that eagerly wanted to believe it, so the Nazi leader was democratically elected before he seized the absolute power.

If Nazi propaganda might have any noticeable success in today's Germany (or US, or wherever), it's not because of some crackpots from stormfront; they are a consequence, not the cause. The cause should be addressed instead, first by assuming its existence. (No, I'm not going to discuss any probable causes here; I'm trying to show the logic, not to make a political case.)

Re:German hate speech law tested as Twitter blocks satire ac... by dragonwriter on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @06:37PM (#16066567)
> The problem is that the Nazi propaganda fell on ears that eagerly wanted to believe it, so the Nazi leader was democratically elected before he seized the absolute power.

That's not really accurate; the Nazis got power not by outright winning a democratic election, but because the various other parties were more concerned about each other than the Nazis, and thus more willing to tolerate a Nazi-coalition government than to form a coalition against the Nazis; the Nazis never were elected to power on their own before seizing power; they actually lost a large number of seats in the election preceding their coalition government from the preceding election (after which no government was formed), and even in that preceding election they had only around 1/3 of the seats.

Nazis didn't come to power because a receptive populace gave them a mandate, they came to power becausea large enough minority of the more numerous elected not-Nazis were more afraid of each other than the Nazis.

Re:German hate speech law tested as Twitter blocks satire ac... by Amezarak on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @08:13PM (#16067131)
> more afraid of each other than the Nazis.

That wasn't exactly irrational, the Nazis were not the first or only party in Germany to be engaging in widespread violence. The Communists, for example, were a real and actual threat. Mass street violence and assassinations were common in Weimar Germany even when the Nazis were nobodies.

Re:German hate speech law tested as Twitter blocks satire ac... by dragonwriter on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @08:15PM (#16067138)
> That wasn't exactly irrational

Nor did I say that it was (at least, based on information available at the time; it may have been strictly irrational in rational choice terms, where rationality implies optimality based on the actual future consequences and not merely anticipated ones.)

Re:German hate speech law tested as Twitter blocks satire ac... by musage on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @06:35PM (#16066553)
Hitler wasn't elected, he was appointed. Which doesn't take away from your point, but it's really astonishing how such easy to correct falsehoods about such a deeply important subject just linger on and get repeated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_presidential_election,_...

The Nazis lied and cheated and murdered their way to power, make no mistake about it. And that was kind of like an onion, too, in that every layer of the Nazi apparatus deceived lower layers.

Apart from the intrinsic importance of things like poverty and unemployment simply because they hurt people no matter how people to react to it, what turned some people into sociopaths (and why it didn't others) is useful to know to prevent more coming into existence, and to leave the ones who aren't beyond the point of return a way out -- but it's also a destructive red herring when dealing with those who are beyond the point of return. They are eating chalk and holding up people who delivered themselves as hostages unto them, so you can have empathy they can only feign and use; and the question is, at what point does the tragedy of their hostages outweigh the tragedy of who they and their hostages will trample on, forever, if given half a chance.

I know it's cold and kind of heartless, but for many people who turns abuser after having been abused, you will also find those who have been abused even more, but did not turn to abusing others. It's not either person's fault or credit, but I can't cater to the first while ignoring the second. Insofar it's a zero-sum choice (and that's not generally the case, mind you, but it's also not never the case), I made my choice. Sometimes, the wheel that squeaks the loudest shouldn't get the grease, but simply should get replaced by a better or even no wheel.

Re:German hate speech law tested as Twitter blocks satire ac... by yorwba on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @11:50PM (#16068127)
Hitler lost the direct presidential election, but Hindenburg (his competitor in that election) didn't appoint him as chancellor for no reason; Hitler's NSDAP was the largest party in the Reichstag, and was therefore a natural choice for forming a government. That's roughly the same level of democratic legitimacy as that of any other German chancellor since.

The Nazis also lied and cheated and murdered, but it wasn't necessary for their rise to power; until they went about abolishing democratic institutions altogether, they could have worked entirely with above-the-board means.

Re:German hate speech law tested as Twitter blocks satire ac... by musage on Thursday January 04, 2018 @08:51AM (#16070276)
> it wasn't necessary for their rise to power [..] they could have

So you may claim, and I disagree. Importantly, "they could have" != "they did".

Re:German hate speech law tested as Twitter blocks satire ac... by LoSboccacc on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @05:55PM (#16066216)
the cycle continues as follow: politicians ignore the masses pleads, populist start selling untenable dreams, the politician still refuse to aknowledge the existence of the problem of that partcular generation, a reaction shifts the power to populist, populist cannot really realize whatever they sold because the masses have a fractured interpretation of their message, populistvsearch for internal or external enemies to redirect blame and direct the mounting hate, the society fractures, strife follows until the society can reunite under a single ideal or gets repressed, at which point it's either a new longer or shorter cycle

of course we somehow manage to always blame the masses or the populists, but they rarely are the ones initiating the cycle