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Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by glitcher on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @10:07AM (#16061519)
I tend to agree with you. Although I also don't have any hard evidence, it seems to me that growing up in the 80's, there was far less parental supervision of kids then there is now. In the summertime during school break, even as early as elementary school probably 3rd grade, we would take off on our bikes and roam without any supervision. As long as we were home by sundown we wouldn't be in any trouble.
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by AmVess on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @12:47PM (#16063103)
My parents let me walk to the corner store alone when I was 5. By the time I was 8, I'd be gone all day doing who knows what; the big rule was to be home for dinner.

Allowing your kids to roam around like that these days will get CPS called on you.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by toyg on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:00PM (#16063270)
That’s the thing: I’m very tempted to let my kids roam the neighborhood, like I did in Italy in the 80s. Where we live now, streets are pretty tight and have speed bumps, so it’s fairly safe. But if anybody gets nosey and calls child protection, I’m in a world of hurt from which I’ll probably never emerge.

Yet another bit of the world ruined by Sun and Daily Mail.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by sametmax on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:14PM (#16063430)
There is a (painful, annoying and unfair) way around this.

Actively socialize a lot with people in your neighborhood. Including the old lady next door, local cops, teachers and shop owners. And once you know 50 persons around by name and they have your phone number, tell them one by one that you intend to let your child going out more and more out by him/herself to learn autonomy. Ask them to not worry, but to keep an eye open: they will feel important, think you are a wonderful parent and your kids will have 50 people to help them in case of a problem.

In my experience, if you befriend on average one person a week, you get there after one year.

Manichean but works wonder. Learned the trick while working in Africa.

It actually works for many other things: finding a job, getting help to do stuff, getting laid... You usually make real friends on the way, not a bad side effect.

Even in those facebook times, one-to-one human relationship are still ruling everything we do, and living in a community is one of the most rewarding skill to sharpen.

But yeah, we are not in a movie, it's a lot of work. The maintenance part is really time and energy consuming, as not everybody is interesting and worth it.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by toyg on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @06:27PM (#16066487)
That would be easy if this were a mediterranean town, rather than northern suburbia. I do know my immediate neighbours, but going knocking farther away would look extremely weird, and possibly considered unwelcome in this brexit age. There are no shops immediately close (a big and very convenient supermarket made sure of that).

I do appreciate the method, I just find hard to believe that it can be put in practice in realities like mine.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by sametmax on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @07:05PM (#16066729)
It's harder in your case, so it will take more time. 2 to 3 years maybe.

To find out where to start, ask yourself where your children are more likely to get caught alone and reported to CPS.

It will also require you go to clubs (sport club, book club), events (garage sell, protests, etc) or even to put them in motion.

Eventually, some thing that works very well is talking to people waiting with you. In queues, waiting rooms, at traffic lights or even traffic jams. It's awkward/annoying as hell when you do it wrong, but after a big of practice it's really a great source of networking.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by gowld on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:23PM (#16064694)
You mean, integrating your children into society makes them safe when they spend time out in society?
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by whatshisface on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @04:42PM (#16065482)
His story sounds like it's more about integrating society with the idea of children.
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by alexanat on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:43PM (#16063747)
This is a wonderful idea.

You mention Facebook - I think FB could be leveraged here as well.. perhaps a neighborhood group.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by sametmax on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:56PM (#16063896)
That's not going to work. Trust and desire to help cannot being batch processed. Well... It can but you need strong leader qualities that few people have.

But you can mix both approaches;

You can do one-on-one to create / maintain the relationship, and utilize social networks to organize the community.

But if you want your local baker to go out of his way to get your child out of trouble, you need to look him in the eyes when you ask for it. And you need to do that for each person you recruit. There is no way around it.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by carapace on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:51PM (#16064984)
This is describing normal life before, say, seventy years ago.
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by sametmax on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @06:18PM (#16066418)
Exactly. But you can't tell introvert geeks that. You need to present it like a life hack.

I know, because I used to be an introvert geek because Mali kicked my ass.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by Analemma_ on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:12PM (#16063411)
> But if anybody gets nosey and calls child protection, I’m in a world of hurt from which I’ll probably never emerge.

I think this is a really overblown fear. Yeah, everyone "totally heard about someone" who had CPS called on them because they let their kid roam around, but I think this is mostly an urban legend about as likely as a terrorist attack. CPS usually has way more on their plate than they can handle with actual issues, I don't think they give a damn about free-range children.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by abritinthebay on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:26PM (#16063555)
It happened to a friend of mine - twice even.

However, and I think this is the important thing, CPS totally didn’t care after a quick 15min interview.

The second time they even apologized and said they were mostly showing up because they had to.

It was the same local busy-body calling them both times btw.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by naasking on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:00PM (#16064487)
> CPS usually has way more on their plate than they can handle with actual issues

Except they are required by law to follow-up on all reports. So you will be interviewed and inconvenienced at the very least.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by conductr on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:26PM (#16063558)
Same, my mom would regularly write a note asking the clerk to sell me cigarettes (for her). It worked.

I can't even imagine how that would play out in current times.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by astura on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @04:18PM (#16065259)
I remember being 10 or so and my dad giving me money to ride my bike to the hardware store to buy him propane. Of course, I didn't even know what propane was so he said "just ask the clerk," who of course, had no problem helping me.
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by dragonwriter on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @10:10AM (#16061549)
This is definitely true, and driven in part by media-driven hysteria that has led to the decades of the perception that child abduction and similar child targeting crimes are on the rise, while the reverse has been the case.
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by hrktb on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @10:55AM (#16061995)
I think it’s not just that.

For instance 20 years ago there was public phone booths everywhere. A kid would just need a few coins and the house number to do a call, now you’d need a cell phone, and giving one to a 5~8 year kid is still not practical.

Or I remember shopping at local shops enough to know their faces and names, or ask shop owner if the other kids where nearby. I don’t think my kid knows anyone other than the bakery people, because local shops have nothing for him at this point.

Same with police or church member perception, I think our generation is less OK to just say to a kid “if there’s any problem just trust the police”. It becomes a weird and complex message of what the institution’s goal is, what’s OK and not OK for them to do, what’s the warning signs, what to do in case stuff gets weird etc.

TL;DR: A lot of stuff changed in the last decades, we can’t just blindly do the same as before.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by appleiigs on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:14PM (#16063433)
> TL;DR: A lot of stuff changed in the last decades, we can’t just blindly do the same as before.

When I was kid, I would get on my bike and wander too far. One time I was out and a thunderstorm came along. A nice lady invited me into her house to call home.

Fast forward to university, a professor objected to me closing his office door with just the 2 of us in there (we're both male and I'm 6ft 200lbs). A colleague of his was falsely accused of being inappropriate to a student, so his policy is to keep the door open.

The change in trust levels has changed pretty swiftly.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by bsder on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:34PM (#16063634)
> The change in trust levels has changed pretty swiftly.

I'm of two minds about this.

1) This is a bad thing in that we don't give respect to authority that it really deserves. And that's quite often a bad thing--especially when related to children and teaching. Sorry to break it to you, Mommy, but your little angel is actually a spoiled, shitty little brat and, no, his opinions don't count.

2) This is a good thing in that people in positions of authority who abuse their power over others are not uncommon. Having greater scrutiny helps cut down on these situations. Apparently most women have dealt with a couple of these people as teachers throughout high school and college.

I really don't know how to reconcile these two.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by abritinthebay on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:28PM (#16063570)
There’s also a difference between interactions & power dynamics in a neighborhood setting with a young kid and a college with an adult student.

So to be totally fair - not exactly similar situations

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by bsder on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:27PM (#16063565)
> Same with police or church member perception, I think our generation is less OK to just say to a kid “if there’s any problem just trust the police”.

I'd go further. We need to get back to: "If you have a problem, pick an adult and ask for help." Really. Most threats to children are people they know. Random strangers are almost always helpful in a situation.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by dragonwriter on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:45PM (#16063770)
> now you’d need a cell phone, and giving one to a 5~8 year kid is still not practical.

I'm not sure about that; there are phones specifically designed for that market (e.g., Firefly), after all.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by hrktb on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @09:24PM (#16067478)
There are, but it comes with the baggage of contracting an additional phone line, and more importantly having it charged at all times and on the kid.

Even just the risk of breaking, losing or getting it stolen is not negligeable.

It’s a viable option depending on the kid and the environment , I just feel kids phone are still too clunky to be worth it. I’d prefer to go straight for a regular smartphone once the kid is big enough to properly take care of it.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by Symbiote on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:34PM (#16063641)
There are still shops everywhere, who will let a child use a phone.

Or teach the child to approach a stranger; a random stranger is very unlikely to be a threat. (A less random one even better: a woman with young children.)

Not trusting the police for problems a child is likely to encounter seems paranoid.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by gowld on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:24PM (#16064711)
> a woman with young children.

because she's already at her quota of kidnapped kids for the day?

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by toasterlovin on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:16PM (#16063449)
You might be surprised by the number of 5-8 year olds with cell phones. And I fully expect smart watches to eventually end up on the wrist of every single kid that spends significant time away from their parents.
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by gowld on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:25PM (#16064724)
smart watches are peripherals, not communications devices, right? you still need a phone to make your smart watch communicate
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by toasterlovin on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:33PM (#16064794)
At this point Apple ships an LTE connected smart watch. Android OEMs have done so for a few years at this point. So I think all that remains is for costs to come down, battery life to improve, and the social acceptance thing to play out. I think smart parents will be giving their kids smartwatches instead of phones in a couple of years (smarter parents will not give their kids either, but I digress...).
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by dragonwriter on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @05:21PM (#16065852)
> smart watches are peripherals, not communications devices, right?

The most popular ones in the US are, but ones that are fully independent phones with their own SIM have been available for some time.

Just for some examples: https://www.smartgeekwrist.com/standalone-smartwatch-sim-car...

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by astura on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @04:23PM (#16065313)
Most 5-8 year olds I personally know have cell phones.
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by mac01021 on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:51PM (#16063840)
I'm not afraid of roving child snatchers. I'm afraid of all the cars that might accidentally run over a kid.
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by francisofascii on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:00PM (#16064486)
Right, cars just go too fast in residential neighborhoods. And the neighborhoods these days are built to encourage speeding. (wide, long stretches without stop signs, etc)
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by matte_black on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:28PM (#16064203)
This is the real reason I do not like kids wandering by themselves. Cars these days are way too fast and drivers are way too distracted texting or taking selfies or whatever and it is very easy to run over a kid who just happens to wander onto the road at exactly the wrong time. Even worse once all cars are silent and electric.
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by kgwgk on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:39PM (#16064309)
> Cars these days are way too fast

Compared to the Ford Model T, maybe.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by matte_black on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:40PM (#16064870)
No way, plot a graph of average horsepower and top speeds over time and you'll see it going up and to the right.
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by kgwgk on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @04:09PM (#16065170)
If your point was that children should not wander along highways and race tracks I agree.
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by astura on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @04:26PM (#16065341)
Your average driver drives way, way too fast on your average residential street and especially parking lots. I've noticed an uptick in the amount of times I've been illegally passed on residential streets in the last 10 years. My street is only around five-six small lot houses long and I'm almost impressed with how fast people manage to drive on it.

Of course, I'm not sure that it has much to do with the speed of the car they are driving.

Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by thwiv on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @10:12AM (#16061564)
I mean, it could be that child abduction is falling because the media warns parents and they all keep better watch of their children.
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by dragonwriter on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @10:20AM (#16061646)
It could be, though it was falling for a couple decades before the media attention started driving the widespread belief that it was increasing, and the behavior changed that resulted from that belief.
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by mrguyorama on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @12:29PM (#16062932)
There's also the fact that children are typically hurt by people they know, not strangers
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by thousandautumns on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @04:16PM (#16065229)
Again, its hard to separate that phenomenon from potentially confounding effects. Is the fact that children are typically hurt by people they know the result of parents being reluctant to let their kids out on the street by themselves, thereby limiting the opportunities for potential strangers to harm them?
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by dragonwriter on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @05:22PM (#16065866)
Again, the effect precedes the behavior change, so is unlikely to be a result of it.
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by SirFatty on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @10:14AM (#16061577)
It wasn't an 80's thing either... I grew up in the 70s/80s and we as kids were free to wander all day long (in the summer), just had to be home by dinner.
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by toyg on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:03PM (#16063311)
Historically, kids were free to roam even more. Remember Sherlock Holmes “irregulars”? Packs of children roaming the streets used to be the norm in urban settings, where families were big but houses were not.
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by mac01021 on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:54PM (#16063870)
1> The adventures of Sherlock Holmes are works of fiction. 2> I think the Baker Street Irregulars were homeless street urchins and did not have any choice but to roam the streets.
Re:Teens Aren’t Partying Anymore by toyg on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @04:07PM (#16065147)
Conan Doyle wrote in this group of kids exactly because, at the time, it was a realistic and familiar sight to urban readers. There are lots of newspaper articles from back then (and if i remember correctly, even lots of Parliamentary tirades) about them. Over a certain size, they had become a matter of public order.

More recently, I remember Dublin city centre in 1988, when Ireland was still pretty poor, being full of kids; and Marrakech or Fes in Morocco just 10 years ago.