The top quintile in the US is much higher than the EU. As a result someone in the EU moving from 10,000 EUR to 80,000 EUR might be going from the bottom to the top quintile.
Someone moving from $10,000 to $125,000 in the US might be going from the bottom to the 3rd quintile. Less income mobility, but higher overall incomes.
I'd prefer the US scenario.
It's a very American way of thinking, in which we fixate on being incredibly wealthy, instead of just moderately wealthy. Why else do Powerball sales skyrocket when the jackpot is hundreds of millions, instead of just millions? Statistically, your chances of winning were much better when it were in the mere millions, and now you have a much smaller chance, though to be very elite instead of just elite.
I assume you mean above and that's a very strong claim that I've found personally to be quite false.
Obviously this is referring to people in general and not you personally.
Couple huge notes here:
1. Overall life assessments improves; that is a part of happiness.
2. These numbers are 2009.. during the recession. They are way higher now almost certainly.
3. Needs to be COLA adjusted (linked article does that)
4. Is this pre-tax or post-tax?
5. I can't find the study itself, but I can't see how household composition wouldn't affect this number.
$130k single person in SF Bay Area might have well peaked on day-to-day happiness - you are generally making enough to not stress about breaking a budget.
At $130k living in the SF Bay Area with 2 young children, you are still going to need to budget, leading to heavy marital arguments about money that hurt day-to-day happiness. I would venture that $350k (pre-tax) is about the level where such a couple would peak by eliminating budget pressure.
With regards to Denmark. When you look a little deeper in the numbers it's not actually true.
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/08/the-ame...
> the movement of individuals, families, households, or other categories of people within or between social strata in a society. It is a change in social status relative to one's current social location within a given society.
Which would be exactly what people would call opportunities. Social mobility is not at all aimed at fixed equality. It's about being provided equal opportunities, for example by having good, free, public education.
In the US, if your parents can't pay for your university degree, you need to either get lucky and get some kind of scholarship or go a couple 100k into debt. This leads to low social mobility, since the rich have a better chance at getting a degree than the poor do.
The average student loan debt is something like $40K, not $200K, and there are quite a few scholarships. I got one for going into STEM--it paid something like $2K/year and I got my degree with only $7K of debt, but I set up my schedule so I could work while I wasn't in class and I didn't lead the lavish lifestyle that my peers did. Of course, the US education system is still unnecessarily expensive--but this falls out from the government's attempt to make it affordable--the government subsidized education by giving students loans and universities responded by competing on things students care most about: manicured campuses and lavish amenities. There are other things as well--additional administrators ("diversity officers" and "bias response teams"), but it mostly falls out from student loan money. Even still, there are lots of great schools that still compete on education and great services to help you find them, so doing better than the average $40K in debt is definitely feasible if not easy even without a scholarship.
You are correct, I picked the most extreme cases to make a point. Here in the Netherlands €40k is about the maximum you'd get and that is after taking your time and having a lavish lifestyle. The schools themselves are only €2k a year, currently.
You don't come to the US because of social mobility, you come here to improve your current situation and relatively, the US provides in spades compared to going to many European countries where you are stuck in some social welfare system and will never actually be able to move out of it.
The European welfare system is great for equality but it doesn't do much for the opportunity.
The ability to break out of your social heritage isn't better in Denmark in any meaningful way. It's a common misconception but was debunked by ex. the Rockwool Foundation who found that Despite free education people were still ending up doing the same as their parents no matter the US or Denmark.
- Does welfare help opportunity?
- Is social mobility the same as opportunity?
The bottom one is the one we're discussing and the answer is yes, because that's what it is. Social mobility also isn't equality, because in a truly equal state, social mobility would be virtually non-existent, since everybody would be equal.
Also, like you previously mentioned yourself, there is no 'European welfare system'. There are lots of different countries with lots of different systems and they all work out differently. The common denominator is that most of them work out better than the US does.
I would recommend reading the wikipedia page on social mobility for some more info. It also explains why equality is in fact important for opportunity, unlike what you wrote:
We are talking about a very specific idea of opportunity (the american dream) which was what I responded to.
When it comes to social mobility again Denmark isn't doing much better than the US. I would recommend you read the Rockwool Foundation report on this matter. I am well aware of social mobility and wha tit means.
The European welfare system is great for equality but it doesn't do much for opportunity.
"The "American Dream" gives people the impression that working hard solves everything and that their country is the best in the world period"
Which is both wrong and missing what the American Dream is all about. It's very far from any European idea of equality, I say that as an European myself and grew up in one of the most equal countries (Denmark).
But once you get to live in the US you quickly realize why Scandinavia style healthcare can never work in the US. It's simply not structured both geographically, culturally, immigration wise and politically to ever work.
As a country with opportunities, nothing really beat the US when all things are considered. That doesn't mean everyone is making it that's not the goal either.
I happen to think that opportunities are bigger in the US because of less regulation, a bigger market with no language barriers and more venture capital and that the US could do even better if people didn't have to worry about hospital bills. There's a lot more potential.
The US is actually not doing well on a lot of individual parameters but if you look at everything as a whole it just ends up being a country with more opportunity than any other country and I would challenge you to find any country that's better than the US in those terms.
When it comes to healthcare geography and immigration is related because of the way a single payer social healthcare system works.
The US have to deal with immigration both legal and illegal. You can't just give 11mio illegal immigrants access to to healthcare just as people who immigrate much later haven't been paying to the system their whole lives.
Furthermore because of the distance if you want to provide equal treatment it's going to be very expensive or you have to spend a lot of money on transportation.
These are just some of the issues which normally gets completetly ignored but are actually crucial to understanding why the US can't be the same as European countries.
Social equality and social mobility are almost opposite ideas. Mobility measures how likely (easy) it is to climb up the ladder, if you're good and/or lucky. Equality measures how steep/long is the ladder - in a totally equal society, there wouldn't be a ladder at all, so there would be zero social mobility.
Again I refer to the OP who started talking about a selfish US .
That's pretty easy. The measure you are looking for is social mobility. Most of Europe is more socially mobile than the US. In layman terms, it's easier to climb from the poorest quintile to the richest quintile. It's the result of the free education and social safety net that Europe is famous for. If you really want a country, ironically in Denmark social mobility is double the score of the US' [https://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21595437-americ...]