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Re:Show your work: The new terms for trust in journalism by jancsika on Monday January 01, 2018 @02:52PM (#16047685)
One cost would be that this would make a special case out of investigation journalism, where the journalists often cannot reveal their sources. Especially in cases where retribution against the source could end in death.

Since that is probably the most important and consequential type of journalism, I'd expect facile attacks claiming investigative journalism "isn't transparent" if this takes off.

The obvious and easy protection against such an attack is to critically read multiple sources and be familiar with journalists' track records over time. So I'm afraid we don't have workable protections against this attack atm. :)

Re:Show your work: The new terms for trust in journalism by Spivak on Monday January 01, 2018 @03:43PM (#16047939)
Why would they need to claim it? The way you've set it up it's vacuously true. The difference between Pizzagate and investigative journalism as you've defined it is reputation. And when trust in the press is lost what separates the curds and the whey is evidence which a fabricated story cannot provide.

The protection you offer even in the ideal case is worthless when there isn't trust that a journalist will bend to political pressure, financial incentives, threats, or to push their own or their publisher's agenda.

Saying that people need to "crtitically read" is just intellectual grandstanding.

Re:Show your work: The new terms for trust in journalism by jancsika on Monday January 01, 2018 @07:51PM (#16049008)
> The difference between Pizzagate and investigative journalism as you've defined it is reputation.

Not with the example you've given. Investigative journalism is one form of journalism. I won't attempt to define journalism except to say the forms its stories take do not include posting a tweet in reference to someone's sentence fragment from a Facebook status. That may be a part of the "raw material" of a story that covers how conspiracy theories begin and spread. But neither that raw material nor the journalistic stories which essentially just tracked the effect of a wild conspiracy theory on a national election are examples of investigative journalism. (There may be pieces of actual investigative journalism wrt Pizzagate, but I haven't read them.)

But let's say we compare Seymour Hersh's story on the killing of Bin Laden and some random Facebook fake news story pretending to be a piece of investigative journalism. At least at present we're not at a point where a fake news artist can do a good enough job mimicking a piece of serious investigative journalism. But disregarding that, the main difference there would be reputation.

But that isn't a small difference. "Reputation" covers a lot of ground-- it includes the publication and the journalist. It also includes the age of the publication, its intended audience, its business model, and even whether the name of the publication appears to have been chosen to be similar to the name of a more reputable publication.

That certainly doesn't mean I reflexively accept all of Hersh's claims-- I do like other non-experts on the subject and withhold judgment until other experts begin to assess the veracity of his story over time. But it does mean that I can reject out of hand the viral Facebook link to some url that looks like "cbsnews.com" if you squint. I can save time and not read it at all based on reputation alone.

> And when trust in the press is lost what separates the curds and the whey is evidence which a fabricated story cannot provide.

It depends on why the trust was lost. If it was because a critical mass of journalists' track records got worse over time, then you're right.

On the other hand, if it is because a critical mass of readers can't tell the difference between a Pulitzer prize-winning investigation of media corruption and a click-bait website on Facebook, asking them to "weigh the evidence we're showing you for yourselves" isn't going to solve anything.

Re:Show your work: The new terms for trust in journalism by Spooky23 on Monday January 01, 2018 @05:06PM (#16048309)
The other, key difference is truth.
Re:Show your work: The new terms for trust in journalism by aalleavitch on Monday January 01, 2018 @03:06PM (#16047755)
As I was suggesting in another post, perhaps there could be some sort of system for peer review of anonymous sources? So when news outlet A wants to use an anonymous source, they request a reviewer who'll be randomly assigned from another news outlet B, then this person will independently verify the anonymous source and give their approval.

Just spitballing here.

Re:Show your work: The new terms for trust in journalism by mtgx on Monday January 01, 2018 @03:07PM (#16047759)
Learn from the dark market vendors, in other words.
Re:Show your work: The new terms for trust in journalism by ams6110 on Monday January 01, 2018 @03:29PM (#16047867)
Don't anonymous sources need to be confirmed independently? Otherwise it's just somebody making a claim.