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Re:Dude, You Broke the Future [video] by ahartmetz on Saturday December 30, 2017 @06:53AM (#16034901)
I think it's fair to call all attempts so far "not reall communism". But you don't have to conclude "real communism would work". You can also conclude "real communism seems unimplementable". It is, after all, a social order that was created purely on paper and from theoretical arguments, which is ridiculous. That activity gives you something to try, but certainly not a fixed solution that you just need to implement as prescribed.
Re:Dude, You Broke the Future [video] by Fnoord on Saturday December 30, 2017 @07:06AM (#16034937)
Its a typical low blow, akin to throwing all right-wing under the guise of Franco, the Weimar republic, or some other right-wing system. Communism has been implemented on small scale. One notable example in Spain [1], problem is that any large political system eventually turns out to be either authoritarian or ineffective or sabotaged (I leave the guess by whom as an exercise to the reader). Its also been applied in part in West-Europe as well as USA, just not in full.

Capitalism is a race to the bottom where the poor countries in the world are being put under the thumb. You don't have to look very far. Just look at all the CIA ops the USA has conducted in the 20th century, e.g. Allende.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_in_Spain#1936_Revolu...

Re:Dude, You Broke the Future [video] by tqdm on Saturday December 30, 2017 @08:19AM (#16035123)
Capitalism is actually currently ending the world hunger because trickle-down effects actually exist. Living standards are rising globally incredibly quickly. Middle-class kids in Jordan are playing Diabolo 3 on their computers despite the region having almost no natural resources, almost no water and despite it being troubled by Syrian refugees. Yes, capitalism needs regulation, but it is a lie to say that the entire approach is doomed to be a race to the bottom.
Re:Dude, You Broke the Future [video] by fabianhjr on Saturday December 30, 2017 @01:52PM (#16036726)
> Capitalism is actually currently ending the world hunger

There are a ton of efforts, both from state-actors[1], NGOs[2] and individuals, seeking to eradicate extreme poverty worldwide. It is not apparent that it is "fixing itself with capitalism" or that any of the previous actors think it is going to happen.

> trickle-down effects actually exist

Citation Needed because trickle-down economics has been shown to increase inequality and not increase the quality of life for those in poverty.

> Yes, capitalism needs regulation, but it is a lie to say that the entire approach is doomed to be a race to the bottom.

Why is it a lie?

[1]: http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/development/data/oecd-internati...

[2]: https://data.oecd.org/drf/grants-by-private-agencies-and-ngo...

Re:Dude, You Broke the Future [video] by YeGoblynQueenne on Saturday December 30, 2017 @10:37PM (#16039206)
>> Middle-class kids in Jordan are playing Diabolo 3 on their computers despite the region having almost no natural resources, almost no water and despite it being troubled by Syrian refugees.

That's interesting, but what is the proportion of middle-class individuals to the rest of the population, in Jordan? If there's 100 kids able to play Diablo 3 in Jordan, while every other kid their age can't afford a computer, then Diablo 3 is not a very useful metric of anything.

Jordan is one of the richest countries in the region btw.

Re:Dude, You Broke the Future [video] by platz on Saturday December 30, 2017 @01:02PM (#16036402)
This is an experiment with 1 trial. What evidence do you have that another system with the same technological advances would not produce the same or better living standards? (none!)
Re:Dude, You Broke the Future [video] by gaius on Saturday December 30, 2017 @01:36PM (#16036631)
East vs West Germany, North vs South Korea, even Cuba vs Florida. There have been plenty of experiments.
Re:Dude, You Broke the Future [video] by perl4ever on Saturday December 30, 2017 @01:39PM (#16036653)
China vs. Taiwan and Hong Kong.
Re:Dude, You Broke the Future [video] by gaius on Saturday December 30, 2017 @01:59PM (#16036773)
Until China went state-capitalist Hong Kong’s economy was one-sixth the size of China’s for 1/200th of the population. Now it’s 2-3%...
Re:Dude, You Broke the Future [video] by platz on Saturday December 30, 2017 @03:01PM (#16037169)
Another system != Statist communists, categorically
Re:Dude, You Broke the Future [video] by Fnoord on Sunday December 31, 2017 @10:40AM (#16040946)
Capitalism needs all kind of patches/bandaids in order to function, and even then it won't function for all. The Kuznets Curve (as mentioned in this article [1] about the doughnut economy) shows the vast amount of inequality in rich countries. Not so much for the general readership of HN (ie. I am arguing the readership is biased).

I fundamentally disagree with a left-right x-axis; we're missing out on authoritative-liberty. Hence politicalcompass.org provides a better framework.

Some of these bandaids are authoritarian, some are liberal. For example, trademarks, patents, copyright each grant power to one or more individuals (ie. a minority) over a vast majority. Here, the free market is being regulated by the government. We consider it part of capitalism.

[1] https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/04/the-new-economic-mode...

Re:Dude, You Broke the Future [video] by observation on Saturday December 30, 2017 @09:28AM (#16035338)
> ny large political system eventually turns out to be either authoritarian or ineffective

Your thoughts on seasteading, even as a hypothetical?

Re:Dude, You Broke the Future [video] by platz on Saturday December 30, 2017 @01:04PM (#16036415)
The original intention was the communist revolution would take over the whole world at once. it was never intended/feasible to be a sole communist nation surrounded by a sea of capitalist nations, but they couldn't admit that failure and pressed on anyway.
Re:Dude, You Broke the Future [video] by gaius on Sunday December 31, 2017 @04:22AM (#16039942)
The original intention was the communist revolution would take over the whole world at once

This in and of itself speaks volumes. If it were truly a viable system it could start in one country which would quickly outstrip all others in technology, culture, industrial production, quality of life for its citizens... Then all other countries would gladly follow.

But they knew from the very beginning that people who could vote with their feet, would flee that system. Countries that restrict people from leaving know perfectly well that they are doing something evil.

Re:Dude, You Broke the Future [video] by platz on Sunday December 31, 2017 @11:29AM (#16041141)
Well, your 'restriction' motivation is a bit conspiracy theory / disingenuous, but yes for many reasons communism at the level of nations doesn't work. Do we really need to re-hash that the leninists' revolution model was flawed over and over again? There is no disagreement here.

Instead, following your startup idea, we should foster worker co-ops, which already exist today and are compatible within existing nations. One example is the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation