Your Roadster was a $100k vehicle when it's new (almost 2x as much as a M3 of the same year), the next Roadster starts at $200k.

For a six-figure vehicle, they better be ballers!

Where is my performance EV that's a competitor to the Miata or the Camero for $30k?

It's nearing the end of the first inning of the electric car shift. The first inning is the introduction and infection of the idea that it's possible and then probable. Musk mostly took care of that. Since it's starting from expensive and moving down, your performance full-EV for a real $30k (non-tax credit dependent), is still at least ten years out. For now they're going to keep selling higher-end vehicles to wealthier people (Tesla etc) and smaller ugly vehicles to environmental buyers (Leaf, Bolt, etc).

The new Leaf isn't ugly at all, it looks quite good. Decent performance too.

>Electric cars are baller. They are fun to drive. My Tesla Roadster does not corner like a Porsche 911, it's true, but it does not matter for everyday driving, because it is so effortlessly faster than anything else on the road, when I pull away from a stoplight, whoever I want to cut in front of is 50 feet behind me.

See I drive a Miata and there is nothing like it in the electric car world. The way you zoom from corner to corner without slowing. It’s interesting that people say electric cars and fun , then quantify it by saying it’s really fast but saying nothing about the handling. The good thing about a balanced and good handling car is that you can enjoy it all the time whereas straight line speed is becoming increasing irrelevant due to traffic and zealous speeding enforcement.

Put it this way how many seconds of full throttle will get you banned?*

*in the UK where a speeding ticket of 100mph plus is a ban.

My last ICE car was a Mini Cooper JCW 6-speed. Still have it. I love it for it's power-to-weight ratio and it's "go kart handling".

Besides being a daily driver it's been autocrossed and tracked plenty of times.

I have Miata friends and listen to the way they describe how tossable their cars are with a glimmer in their eye. I've driven their Miatas and I'd take my Mini's handling any day.

My current daily driver is a Model S 100D (not the P100D) and it is insanely fun to drive.

As far as daily drivers go I'd choose the Model S over the Mini 99 days out of 100.

It's over TWICE AS HEAVY as the Mini but that weight is about a foot off the ground, the suspension is more than up to the job of handling 2.5 tons, and it has a near 50/50 weight distribution.

The Mini might corner like a go kart, but the Model S corners like its on rails. I have just as much "fun" driving the Model S around town as the Mini but the effort put in to doing so is a mere fraction.

You present your Miata as a "balanced and good handling car", and I assure you; a competent electric car is 100% both of those things while also being effortless in traffic.

I grew up as a "driver" which is why the Mini is never going anywhere and other enthusiast ICE cars have made their way through my stable over the years. It's why I still choose a manual transmission car where I have to spool up the motor 1 day out of 100. And I don't foresee electric cars being realistic choices for a track day any time in the next 10-15 years.

But anybody who truly believes they aren't already sufficient for 99% of the car-buying public's needs* because they aren't "fun" either hasn't given one a shot or is in irrational denial.

* - Trucks are a different matter, but Musk hopes to change that soon, as well...

> And I don't foresee electric cars being realistic choices for a track day any time in the next 10-15 years.

Why not? People are already taking Teslas to track days, and doing quite well with them. They're faster than the majority of random cars that people are already bringing to track days. That's why track days have performance classes, so you don't have Civics competing directly against (and getting trounced by) Ferraris.

>Put it this way how many seconds of full throttle will get you banned?

So your argument in favor of gas cars is that they are slow? Ok.

I had two Miatas, including one that I modified for autocross (SCCA CSP) and later turbo'ed. A Miata with 1.2 bar of boost is almost too much fun. Great cars! So I know what you are talking about.

About 4 years ago I leased a Chevy Spark EV, one of the most basic of tiny econo-hatches. I assume the gas one is pretty sad to drive. The electric one is brilliant. Instant silent thrust! One pedal driving! It was a revelation. I'm never going to buy another ICE car, they just don't drive right.

Try something like a Chevy Bolt or a Tesla and see for yourself.

I can't help but feel that this conversation is missing the forest for the trees. The vast majority of people need cars to get them from point A to point B. They are not automobile racing enthusiasts who demand extreme cornering performance. If this were the only thing holding electric cars back, then electric cars could easily get to 99.X% market share, at which point there are an insignificant number of ICE cars remaining.

> Admittedly, battery capacity costs money. Price-sensitivity is the reason most of these newly-announced cars don't have as much range. It is not a technical limitation.

I disagree. The costs will drop, sure, but that's not particularly relevant for performance cars. The weight, on the other hand, will only increase with every bit of range you add. While electric cars can easily produce enough torque to still accelerate quickly (though how much range you'll really have driving that way is another question...), even with adaptive suspensions using magnetorheological dampers you can't cheat basic physics in corners.

And that's why I'd much rather have a BMW M3 (well, I'd prefer one of the AWD 911s, a V10 R8 or even an Audi RS4, but YMMV) than any electric car. Even if you value raw straight line acceleration that much, do note that the Tesla Roadster doesn't really compete with the BMW M3. You can get ICE vehicles with much better acceleration than an M3 that are still vastly superior in terms of handling to any Tesla.

> The costs will drop, sure, but that's not particularly relevant for performance cars.

Conversely, cost is highly relevant for non performance cars, which, from the perspective of displacing transportation petroleum use, are far more important.

Once the typical EV range reaches the limit that a person can comfortably drive without taking a long break (~300 miles?), range anxiety becomes a non-issue.

> Conversely, cost is highly relevant for non performance cars, which, from the perspective of displacing transportation petroleum use, are far more important.

Absolutely. I was responding to a post about performance cars, so I stuck to that.

> Once the typical EV range reaches the limit that a person can comfortably drive without taking a long break (~300 miles?), range anxiety becomes a non-issue.

I don't entirely buy the argument that range anxiety just goes away after some magic number. Charging times still impose constraints and require planning ahead, especially for longer trips. Even people who spend 99% of their time in short city commutes don't necessarily like the idea that they might not be free to just jump in their car and set off when they please.

Ultimately, no matter how far battery and charging tech advances, range and charging times will always be an objective disadvantage of electric cars vs ICE. When electric cars can actually outcompete ICE vehicles in price and other factors it may turn out to be a tradeoff most people are okay with, but we're not there yet.