When should behaviour outside a community have consequences inside it?

Re:When should behaviour outside a community have consequenc... by bobthechef on Thursday December 21, 2017 @02:34PM (#15982035)

One may be natural law theory (and within that context, you have e.g. the perverted faculty argument, among others). Unfortunately, given the poor state of philosophical literacy, I don't imagine that convincing supporters of gay marriage without the requisite education. And even then, liberal doctrine has become increasingly averse to reason, preferring to elevate private desires to the status of ultimate authority.

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Re:When should behaviour outside a community have consequenc... by dwaltrip on Thursday December 21, 2017 @03:08PM (#15982350)

In evolutionary biology, there is no notion of correct or incorrect usage of a faculty. In fact, the opposite is the case. Evolution often occurs by modifying and reusing some functionality in a new way or in a new context. It has no specific goals or purposes. Things that survive and reproduce stick around and things that don't die off, no matter the details.

The sexual organs don't have a pre-ordained purpose. The argument falls apart at the very first premise.

If the actual concern is that all of humanity will turn gay and then we will go extinct, well, it's safe to say I'm not too worried about that.

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Re:When should behaviour outside a community have consequenc... by SmirkingRevenge on Friday December 22, 2017 @09:57AM (#15987837)

Natural lawyers generally don't appeal to evolutionary biology to ground their moral claims, and would probably universally cry that to try and do so, would be folly. Note...I'm not endorsing NL here, I don't find it very convincing, but...

The parent's point about philosophical literacy is apropos here. Natural law and its underlying metaphysics is very technical and deep. It is definitely not falling apart by pointing out the obvious, that biology varies over time. In some respect, NL has dealt with that "problem" since the time of Aristotle. (For a start: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/essential-accidental/)

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Re:When should behaviour outside a community have consequenc... by dwaltrip on Friday December 22, 2017 @01:30PM (#15989695)

> The parent's point about philosophical literacy is apropos here. Natural law and its underlying metaphysics is very technical and deep.

This may be true, but such endeavors must reconcile with modern scientific understanding one way or another, or they can lose validity/usefulness. I haven't seen any convincing efforts to do so.

Note, this would be less of an issue if they didn't make certain specific claims or rely on certain specific premises that the natural sciences directly touch. E.g. the "purpose" of sexual organs.

One relevant idea that has been growing stronger for me is that a philosophical endeavor needs some sort of strong, tangible connection to reality in order to have meaning or usefulness. Without such grounding, it is far too easy to end up with something that seems reasonable on the surface but may actually be nonsensical or illusory.

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