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Re:MIT Media Lab's concerns about the cryptocurrency IOTA by seanwilson on Thursday December 21, 2017 @01:41PM (#15981567)
Can anyone explain the reason behind the push for ternary? They say that with special ternary hardware added to IoT devices (which is a big ask), it'll make their proof of work process more efficient on those devices. Why not just make the proof of work easier then? It's not like thousands of low power IoT devices are going to be able to compete against the hash rate of a few powerful PCs anyway unless I'm missing something.

I've tried asking in other places but I've just had people regurgitating buzzwords at me... It's quite worrying how easily convinced non-technical people find jargon when there's so many red flags here. I can't believe some people are really buying the story that the broken hash function was a deliberate form of copy-protection to prevent open source copy cats.

Re:MIT Media Lab's concerns about the cryptocurrency IOTA by ttt111222333 on Thursday December 21, 2017 @02:29PM (#15981992)
Apparently ternary is the 'sweet spot' for computing because it's closer to e (2.7...). We used binary for a while because on / off was the only way we processed stuff but now we have the ability to do ternary with more accurate measures of voltage? Something like that.

Apparently ternary makes math easier in terms of signs etc. as well. The below article explains it better.

https://dev.to/buntine/the-balanced-ternary-machines-of-sovi...

Given the wealth of experience with binary though I don't think its prudent to jump to ternary...

Re:MIT Media Lab's concerns about the cryptocurrency IOTA by jsmthrowaway on Thursday December 21, 2017 @02:54PM (#15982243)
With balanced ternary, setting aside a bit for signed words goes away. We'd stop having to think about signed versus unsigned, and we'd get the full word width if it were based on trits, regardless of the sign. It makes a lot of sense. It also has dramatic implications for floating point, I understand, though I grok that aspect a bit less. If you go unbalanced (I think is the term?) and let each trit express one of three trinary digits from 0 to 2 in an integer, then a 64-trit word can make it 11 significant digits further (3^64-1), and this is a pain point in game engines trying to express astronomical distances such as Star Citizen. You'd open up a number of cool primitive data types; I could see a balanced integer being "signed" and an unbalanced integer being "unsigned/long" for example, and relative pointers could go backwards without having to do a ssize_t-style dance, etc., etc. Tri-states give a native word a lot of possibilities.

There's a lot of people thinking in ternary already, and not realizing it. bool? is ternary: true, false, or null. Think about the implications on error handling of such a primitive at the logic level. I'm positive that's true, I'm positive that's false, I'm not sure. It's a pretty powerful way of computing, and has a lot of implications up the stack.

If you step back and look at the gymnastics we do around boolean logic and arithmetic in typical, day-to-day programming, being able to express a third state at the logic level is something you never knew you wanted. New logic based on unknown values could be expressed -- think about a tritmask, for example, and what you could express with a number of "don't care" trits. I certainly see the value in ternary, with the caveat that I know nothing about IOTA nor how it uses it.

I've seen discussion about "why don't we build 128-bit computers?" and I think it's a similar thought exercise to "why don't we build 63-trit computers?" with the added complexity of three-level logic compared to plain word extension. I gather that a lot of benefits of ternary overlap with what's going to happen in quantum computing, too, though approaching ternary from a traditional computing mindset makes it a lot easier to understand for me.

Re:MIT Media Lab's concerns about the cryptocurrency IOTA by seanwilson on Thursday December 21, 2017 @10:44PM (#15985123)
What's the use in picking a proof of work function that is easy to optimise in the future though? Isn't this like a new Bitcoin coming out that picks a proof of work function that is easily adaptable to ASICs? I thought the whole point of proof of work functions is that they're meant to be difficult?
Re:MIT Media Lab's concerns about the cryptocurrency IOTA by kruhft on Thursday December 21, 2017 @02:01PM (#15981750)
Supposedly it creates lower power chips.
Re:MIT Media Lab's concerns about the cryptocurrency IOTA by QML on Thursday December 21, 2017 @02:15PM (#15981885)
Are we at that point where we can have ternary signals though?
Re:MIT Media Lab's concerns about the cryptocurrency IOTA by kruhft on Thursday December 21, 2017 @02:24PM (#15981948)
Here are the logic levels in standard VHDL:

https://www.cs.sfu.ca/~ggbaker/reference/std_logic/1164/std_...

Maybe some of those can be multiplexed to create Ternary chips with todays tools?