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Re:What ORMs have taught me: just learn SQL (2014) by lmm on Monday December 18, 2017 @11:12AM (#15952614)
> Hibernate (and presumably any ORM) was never intended to be a complete abstraction of anything-SQL. Like others have mentioned here, an understanding of SQL must be had before using an ORM.

Disagree. You need to understand the relational model, but you don't need to understand SQL-the-language. I've written plenty of successful systems using hibernate without needing to touch SQL, and am much happier for it.

Re:What ORMs have taught me: just learn SQL (2014) by _grep_ on Monday December 18, 2017 @11:47AM (#15952969)
I agree with you, but I think people (for better or worse) are using the two terms interchangeably in this thread.