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Re:Norway votes to decriminalise drugs and offer treatment i... by shams93 on Saturday December 16, 2017 @04:47PM (#15942329)
Yeah unfortunately here we use the drug laws to effectively reintroduce slavery. Its legal under US law to use prisoners as slave labor. As we used to say in the 90s people in the 'hood don't have planes. By the 2000s rather than the CIA cocaine and heroin smuggling we saw Wallstreet move in and the rise of the Oxycontin era where Wallstreet shareholders have been directly benefiting both from selling opiates to the masses and then from their slave labor when they land in a private prison after converting from oxy to heroin addiction.
Re:Norway votes to decriminalise drugs and offer treatment i... by meri_dian on Saturday December 16, 2017 @04:56PM (#15942377)
Not true at all. The amount of goods produced by people in jail is a negligible part of the economy. Prisoners do work, sure, but that's to pass the time.

We imprison far too many people in the US for minor drug offences, but it's definitely not in order to reintroduce slavery...

Re:Norway votes to decriminalise drugs and offer treatment i... by jocro on Saturday December 16, 2017 @06:09PM (#15942796)
I don't think anyone is saying that prison labor is in any way reintroducing the economic impact of 18-19th century slave trade. But, as a country, the US:

1) Incarcerates people at a higher rate than any country besides Seychelles

2) Abolished slavery for all persons except prisoners:

"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted..."

Between local, state, and federal prisons, we're looking at roughly 500,000 imprisoned for drug-related offenses[1]. Yes, the labor of these people is a trivial portion of the overall economy, but it still produces huge profit for those running the show: CoreCivic has a market cap of ~$2.6 billion. They exist to extract value from the lives and labors of the people who their institutions keep under lock and key.

There is a direct incentive for these corporations to increase the number of prisoners in the system, and they leverage their power to pursue that incentive, lobbying for and even drafting legislation that enforces three strike and mandatory minimum rules.[2] They are actively pushing governments to imprison more people, and profiting from the resulting state sanctioned slavery.

[1] https://static.prisonpolicy.org/images/pie2017.png [2] https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2016/aug/22/study-shows...

Re:Norway votes to decriminalise drugs and offer treatment i... by coldtea on Saturday December 16, 2017 @06:51PM (#15943000)
>Not true at all. The amount of goods produced by people in jail is a negligible part of the economy.

It's still a hugely profitable business on its own for those involved, so that comparison is kind of beyond the point. Pimps profits also make for "a negligible part of the economy" but their profession is a thing.

>Prisoners do work, sure, but that's to pass the time.

If only.

https://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21718897-idaho-...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jun/16/us-prisons-j...

Re:Norway votes to decriminalise drugs and offer treatment i... by Cookiesaurusbex on Saturday December 16, 2017 @05:15PM (#15942487)
Prisoners in California are being used as firefighters. It's not an easy or safe job and I'm pretty sure they aren't doing it just to pass time.
Re:Norway votes to decriminalise drugs and offer treatment i... by Zak on Saturday December 16, 2017 @05:42PM (#15942653)
A quick search reveals that all of the inmates doing that job are volunteers.

They get to spend time outside prison and interact with people who aren't prisoners or guards. I could imagine volunteering for that if I was a prisoner. That doesn't make using prisoners as cheap labor OK, especially for dangerous jobs, but it doesn't surprise me at all that prisoners would rather do that than sit in a cell.

Re:Norway votes to decriminalise drugs and offer treatment i... by coldtea on Saturday December 16, 2017 @06:55PM (#15943019)
>A quick search reveals that all of the inmates doing that job are volunteers.

It's easy to make volunteers out of people if:

1) Their living conditions are so bad in your hellish prisons that that most alternatives seem like heaven.

2) you control their living conditions and can make their life hell if you want to "motivate" them to volunteer.

3) A crappy legal system hands them some of the harshest terms in the world in some of the more BS prisons, and having them volunteer for such work can give them more "points" towards getting our earlier.

What I'm getting at is, volunteering for an inmate is not necessarily the same thing as volunteering is for a free man -- or even the same thing as a prisoner in a place without medieval prison conditions and vindictive attitude towards prisoners volunteering.

Re:Norway votes to decriminalise drugs and offer treatment i... by ficklepickle on Saturday December 16, 2017 @11:03PM (#15944016)
I'd tend to agree. I mean, if I was locked in a cage first, I'd likely be more willing to agree to something, anything, that gets me out of that cage.

Whether that is good, bad or indifferent is a whole different matter, but I think it is safe to say that it is a thing.

Re:Norway votes to decriminalise drugs and offer treatment i... by fwn on Sunday December 17, 2017 @03:38AM (#15944839)
Surely there is no power relation stacked against prisoners that might lead to any suspicion regarding their consent.
Re:Norway votes to decriminalise drugs and offer treatment i... by thatcat on Saturday December 16, 2017 @05:32PM (#15942592)
If you force people to work for a few cents an hour, that will always be a negligable part of the economy.
Re:Norway votes to decriminalise drugs and offer treatment i... by mlazos on Saturday December 16, 2017 @05:48PM (#15942683)
I don’t see your logic here. Slaves worked for free and were a huge part of the economy. Wages are not the only part of the equation.
Re:Norway votes to decriminalise drugs and offer treatment i... by thatcat on Saturday December 16, 2017 @07:40PM (#15943194)
The meterics that account for economic activity will place a very low one on labor with a very low hourly rate.

AFAIK, Slaves would be categorized as capital expense, which is different than labor and would use a different measure for economic output.

Re:Norway votes to decriminalise drugs and offer treatment i... by cglace on Sunday December 17, 2017 @08:15AM (#15945643)
Who cares how you classify the expense. They are talking about what percent of goods/services in our economy come from prisoners. It's negligible.

When slavery was a thing It was not negligible. It made up a good portion of the southern economy.

Re:Norway votes to decriminalise drugs and offer treatment i... by thatcat on Sunday December 17, 2017 @01:07PM (#15946827)
How do you quantify the goods and services that come from prisoners? It's not like they're stamped with (made in prison), but more likely would be marketed as (made in US).
Re:Norway votes to decriminalise drugs and offer treatment i... by cglace on Tuesday December 19, 2017 @08:56AM (#15960185)
Are you honestly suggesting that a large percentage of goods/services in the US are provided by prisoners or are you just arguing for arguments sake?

I doubt 1 in a million products are made by prisoners.

Re:Norway votes to decriminalise drugs and offer treatment i... by thatcat on Wednesday December 20, 2017 @03:12AM (#15967892)
I was honestly curious how you might quantify that.