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Re:Firefox is on a slippery slope by stirner on Saturday December 16, 2017 @03:32PM (#15941872)
The problem is the complexity of all the specifications that make up the Web. These specifications are heavily influenced by whatever major browsers already are doing (i.e. influenced by a handful of huge tech companies). These companies have a vested interest in making it hard to make a new, competitive browser.

I think the Web is unredeemable at this point; there is so much entrenched complexity, ugly hacks, centralization, and misuse of various technologies that it can never be undone. The only solution is to refuse to contribute to the Web at all, which is hardly an option for most of us here.

Re:Firefox is on a slippery slope by Retric on Saturday December 16, 2017 @06:11PM (#15942809)
I think we could build a simple standard that does the useful parts of layout / CSS and includes a sane scripting language in a reasonable timeframe. It would need to be accessible both for users and developers.

The hard part would be enforcing behavior so you don't end up with venders adding their own bits which destroy the entire point of the thing.

Re:Firefox is on a slippery slope by sliverstorm on Saturday December 16, 2017 @08:12PM (#15943317)
I think the Web is unredeemable at this point; there is so much entrenched complexity, ugly hacks, centralization, and misuse of various technologies that it can never be undone.

Somewhere, an AMP developer coughs indignantly

Re:Firefox is on a slippery slope by thomastjeffery on Saturday December 16, 2017 @04:00PM (#15942072)
The solution is to fork, or start over.

I like the latter idea.

Re:Firefox is on a slippery slope by hossbeast on Saturday December 16, 2017 @06:14PM (#15942822)
Are there any ongoing efforts in that regard? I guess IPFS, but even then, you're serving html.
Re:Firefox is on a slippery slope by xj9 on Saturday December 16, 2017 @10:41PM (#15943947)
its slow going, but that's what i'm trying to do with heropunch[0]. our goal is to create a p2p application platform using a handful of libre technologies: secure scuttlebutt, ipfs, lxc, enlightenment foundation libraries, rust, and elixir.

[1]: https://www.heropunch.io

Re:Firefox is on a slippery slope by krapp on Saturday December 16, 2017 @06:16PM (#15942835)
Great. I support this.

Go build your new web and leave those of us who believe the existing web, despite its faults, has value, be.

Re:Firefox is on a slippery slope by thomastjeffery on Monday December 18, 2017 @03:05PM (#15954963)
Well, I certainly don't want to do it alone, if I want to do it in the first place.

It sounds an awful lot like you are complaining, but about what, I am not sure.

I don't see how I am not letting you be, either. Creating a new system does not involve you at all, until you find a personal interest in that system, or its development.

Re:Firefox is on a slippery slope by abiox on Saturday December 16, 2017 @07:16PM (#15943082)
just about anything people invest time into is going to have some sort of value, 'despite faults'.

that doesn't really speak to the value of progress, reflecting on the status quo, or creating something fresh with lessons learned from the past.

i don't really get the 'leave you be' bit.

Re:Firefox is on a slippery slope by krapp on Saturday December 16, 2017 @07:26PM (#15943125)
>i don't really get the 'leave you be' bit.

Simple. More than a few people here seem to believe, as the grandparent comment suggests, that the web is a lost cause, or irredeemable, and all those people seem to want to do is to constantly complain about it.

I'm simply suggesting that if people feel the web has nothing to offer them, that it would be more productive for them to kindly leave it for a network that better suits their needs. Otherwise, rather than wanting to "fork the web and start over" they could consider working to improve what we have.

Re:Firefox is on a slippery slope by thomastjeffery on Monday December 18, 2017 @03:07PM (#15954980)
> all those people seem to want to do is to constantly complain about it.

Why are you taking those complaints so personally?

You don't need us to be content with the status quo. If all we are doing is complaining, we really aren't doing anything to you.

Re:Firefox is on a slippery slope by abiox on Saturday December 16, 2017 @08:14PM (#15943331)
viewing the web as a lost cause or irredeemable is not the same as saying it has nothing to offer. 'leaving the web' also doesn't seem very pragmatic, at least until something better is available.
Re:Firefox is on a slippery slope by krapp on Saturday December 16, 2017 @08:45PM (#15943465)
>viewing the web as a lost cause or irredeemable is not the same as saying it has nothing to offer

I disagree - if it has something to offer then it's not a lost cause. A lost cause by definition isn't worth saving, or even engaging with.

> 'leaving the web' also doesn't seem very pragmatic, at least until something better is available.

The comment I replied to earlier suggested that the only reasonable solution to the web was to fork it or start over, with starting over being preferable. I'm merely suggesting that someone should actually get started on that.

Or maybe revive Gopher. I hear that's still around.

Re:Firefox is on a slippery slope by abiox on Saturday December 16, 2017 @10:27PM (#15943894)
people can get started on that, and probably are. but the web exists, and the web is pervasive. it doesn't make any sense to abandon it until a replacement arrives... just as it makes no sense to simply abandon gas engines (and what, walk?) before electric ones are ready to replace them.

the real question is whether the New Thing can avoid the problems of it's predecessor.