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Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by rkuykendall-com on Thursday December 14, 2017 @01:37PM (#15925193)
> our democracy isn't working properly

Democracy doesn't work through public declarations, it works through elections. One year ago, the states chose Donald Trump as president, knowing they he would end Net Neutrality [1]. If a population wants to send a different message, they must do it in the next election [2].

[1] https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/53260835850816716... [2] https://swingleft.org/

Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by humanrebar on Thursday December 14, 2017 @01:48PM (#15925400)
> One year ago, the states chose Donald Trump as president, knowing they he would end Net Neutrality

More charitably, they chose Donald Trump on the suspicion that he would do "better" than Hillary Clinton on: abortion, immigration, the economy, leading in "the culture wars", and maybe a few other issues. Net neutrality was a litmus test for basically nobody.

Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by ajmurmann on Thursday December 14, 2017 @02:25PM (#15925917)
The lack of choices in the US "democracy" is laughable compared to malty European, parliamentary democracies.
Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by humanrebar on Thursday December 14, 2017 @04:36PM (#15927314)
US democracy has many more choices because so many issues (marijuana legalization, divorce laws, tax rates, etc.) are state issues.

To some degree, this whole mess is due to pushing ostensibly state-level laws (abortion regulations, for example) to the national level, which leaves much less room for genuinely national issues, like internet regulations, defense spending, immigration law, etc.

It might seem unnecessarily inflammatory to bring up abortion in a net neutrality discussion, but it's hard to get around the fact that appointments to the Supreme Court (which basically sets abortion policy) might have been the thing that convinced enough people to vote for Trump.

So I guess I agree that a lack of choices results in outcomes like this, but U.S. democracy provides other mechanisms for political diversity. They're just not being utilized on certain key issues at this point in history.

Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by unityByFreedom on Thursday December 14, 2017 @02:08PM (#15925706)
> Net neutrality was a litmus test for basically nobody

At that time, sure. Time will tell whether electing an extremist candidate was a good idea or not.

Losing in deep red Alabama isn't a good sign.

Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by dfee on Thursday December 14, 2017 @02:28PM (#15925943)
I think you’re looking for the term populist, not extremist.
Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by unityByFreedom on Thursday December 14, 2017 @04:58PM (#15927529)
> I think you’re looking for the term populist, not extremist.

Actually, I meant extremist. The "Trump" party is full of people who want to roll back amendments to the 1940s or earlier.

These are extremist views, in my opinion, and don't represent the average American. Bannon and those who would raise white supremacist marches chanting against Jews can go suck a lemon.

Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by humanrebar on Thursday December 14, 2017 @03:39PM (#15926772)
Agreed. "extremist" implies some sort of ideology. If Trump has one of those, he hasn't articulated it yet.
Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by unityByFreedom on Thursday December 14, 2017 @05:04PM (#15927590)
> Agreed. "extremist" implies some sort of ideology. If Trump has one of those, he hasn't articulated it yet.

Are you serious? Every politician is an ideologue. It's why we elect one over another. We agree with one's idea about policies over another's.

The only people who we expect to divorce themselves from ideologies are judges, who are there to interpret the law, not make it.

Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by humanrebar on Thursday December 14, 2017 @06:41PM (#15928449)
I'm not sure the electorate sees elections the same way.

I think most of them are true Republicans in the sense that they want to elect people they think are trustworthy and then let them make decisions as their proxy. In that case, a candidate can have policies and platforms to convince people to let her be their proxy, but she doesn't need them. She could just have a "trust me, I'll make the right decision" pitch.

Besides, if Trump is an ideologue, what is that ideology? At best it's a new (or at least renewed) nativist spin on identity politics. That's not an ideology; that's a team.

Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by unityByFreedom on Thursday December 14, 2017 @11:30PM (#15929680)
> Besides, if Trump is an ideologue, what is that ideology?

Republicanism is an ideology. Trump's is clearly farther right than previously elected R presidents.

Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by humanrebar on Friday December 15, 2017 @06:40AM (#15931133)
I'll respectfully disagree. Trump doesn't really care about limited government, balanced budgets, traditional values, federalism, reducing abortion, market-based solutions to societal problems, etc.

He does have a laundry list of issues he tweets about, a subset of which he picks at with executive orders (which, itself, is unconservative) but that seems more like raw appeasement of his political base than anything coherent (or even consistent!).

There are a few exceptions, I guess. He's, at least in rhetoric, for a strong military. Though we're nowhere near a "Trump doctrine" that proposes a coherent framework for that desire. It's, again, more of an id-driven move than anything rational.

Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by ulkesh on Thursday December 14, 2017 @02:31PM (#15925989)
> Time will tell whether electing an extremist candidate was a good idea or not.

And in the meantime, who cares if the country is lit on fire? That's the future elected officials' problem.

Sarcasm aside, I actually agree that we need to speak with our vote. I just wish we didn't have such large swings of the deregulation penis in the meantime, and instead we had cool-headed, logical people at the helms of these agencies and our Executive branch. I suppose it's too naive of me.

Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by ryanisnan on Thursday December 14, 2017 @01:45PM (#15925339)
Our democracy is hardly a democracy. I kind of wish people would stop discussing it as such. The opinion of the population matters very little to the outcome of legislation, and for those whose opinions it does matter (legislators), they are bought and paid for.

Also, if you really think that people who voted for Donald Trump understood the intricacies of net neutrality you must be an incredibly optimistic individual.

Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by olympus on Thursday December 14, 2017 @01:44PM (#15925327)
Having a good memory is the singularly best way to combat the money corrupting politics.

The people just proved with the Alabama special election that they can change the establishment if they feel strongly enough about it.

Sadly I think the effects of repealing Net Neutrality will be felt more like a frog in a slowly heating pot of water, and no single change is going to entice the majority of the population to vote. It's not the tech industry that needs to be convinced that repealing neutrality is bad, it's the general non-tech population that needs to be convinced to care.

Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by ryandrake on Thursday December 14, 2017 @02:24PM (#15925903)
Alabama didn't prove anything really. It demonstrated that the bar for getting elected to a national office in Alabama is a minuscule amount above "accused of sexually assaulting minors".
Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by olympus on Thursday December 14, 2017 @03:49PM (#15926876)
It also demonstrated that the established incumbent party can lose if they ignore the will of the people. They could have easily found another Republican (even another judge) that wasn't accused of numerous sexual misconducts. They chose not to bother because why swap out a yes-man with a person that might have principles when Alabama is a guaranteed win?

Eventually both parties are going to realize that they would be better off putting forward a candidate that the people like instead of putting forth an establishment yes-man (in the Dems case from the presidential race, a yes-woman).

Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by scrollaway on Thursday December 14, 2017 @01:42PM (#15925288)
You're just saying your democracy isn't working properly, just for different reasons.

Most Trump supporters did not elect trump "knowing ... he would end Net Neutrality", and a statement from 2014 does not disprove that (a cursory glance at r/TrumpCriticizesTrump/ kinda makes the point).

The US public is atrociously misinformed as a whole, either due to lack of education or bad media incentives or both. In order to function, a democracy requires an informed public.

Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by dfee on Thursday December 14, 2017 @02:33PM (#15926014)
Thankfully we don’t live in a democracy. America is a democratic republic. As the public is naturally under-informed, this is arguably a good thing; regardless of your views on Net Neutrality.

E.g. has Trump been able to build the wall that arguably half the population approved of? No, because his budget approval process has been checked by other elected representatives.

Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by tmat on Thursday December 14, 2017 @01:46PM (#15925351)
the problem with this statement is we weren't given a fair choice of options.. It was this or that and they both stunk to high heaven.
Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by humanrebar on Thursday December 14, 2017 @01:49PM (#15925413)
Absolutely. The strongest point of each candidate was that they weren't the other candidate.
Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by sergiotapia on Thursday December 14, 2017 @02:05PM (#15925666)
I'm sure President Trump's policies were very important for voters, not just "he's not hillary".
Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by humanrebar on Thursday December 14, 2017 @03:38PM (#15926757)
I think his very-well-known inconsistencies on policy matters makes it hard to argue that he won on the merits of his policies. His personality, attitude, and his not being Hillary Clinton seemed to be more important.
Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by tmat on Thursday December 14, 2017 @01:54PM (#15925505)
Amazing isn't it?
Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by mrguyorama on Thursday December 14, 2017 @02:29PM (#15925973)
>the states chose Donald Trump as president

The states, yet not the people

Sure, he won with our current system, but even school children think our current system is silly

Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by Cknight70 on Thursday December 14, 2017 @01:48PM (#15925378)
While I do not think Donald Trump is turning out to be a great president, his competition was not any better for different reasons. I think there is also a problem with how our Democracy elects people as well.
Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by nawgszy on Thursday December 14, 2017 @02:02PM (#15925622)
I don't like Hillary at all and think the Democrats would've easily won if they hadn't used establishment tactics to put thru their establishment candidate over Bernie, but..

>his competition was not any better

Really? Hillary was going to carry on a lot of Obam-ian policies. Net neutrality would still exist, pedophiles would not be publicly endorsed by her, and a 'tax cut' that is actually just a confusing mess that only clearly benefits the super-rich would not have happened.

So what exactly would she have done to be as bad as Trump? The guy is incessantly mired in scandals; says things that a centrist family would barely tolerate their old, crazy, racist uncle saying around holiday dinners; and is basically a narcissist.

I don't like Hillary at all and don't see how you can say "she's not any better than Trump" with a straight face.

Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by Cknight70 on Thursday December 14, 2017 @02:43PM (#15926140)
Probably because of political leaning, but statements Trump made like wanting to incentivize companies to return to the US, deporting illegal immigrants, and decreasing military spending. Were some of the main reasons I thought Trump was even worthy of being considered.

Trump has been wishy washy on his immigration and military spending statements since being in office.

Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by jamescontrol on Thursday December 14, 2017 @02:16PM (#15925797)
I an pretty far away from you guys, but from where I’m sitting trump seems like a utter maniac, lying even when people can clearly prove it is lies. Alternative facts etc etc. I have a hard time understanding how he can be compared to pretty much anyone and come out on top.. I know the Media paints their own picture of him, but still?
Re:F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules by ModernMech on Thursday December 14, 2017 @02:29PM (#15925972)
Clinton has been demonized for decades by the right. Right wing media turned her into the boogie woman who elicits a visceral, emotional response from Republicans. It's so ingrained, they're still talking about her daily on Fox News, because they understand the effect she has on the Republican base.