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Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by germinalphrase on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @08:08AM (#15913957)
TLDR: As a high school level teacher, this would be less of a problem if teachers had stronger enforcement powers. Since we often don't - I would strongly favor a ban. If students need a computer, we have them available all day, every day.

As a high school level teacher, I appreciate the attitude that there are amazing opportunities for learning and skill development with computers. I agree with this wholeheartedly. That said, a majority of my students are addicted to social media (they are teenagers, after all) and cannot self moderate their attention and/or behavior on this issue. They are not, generally, breaking their attention away from class for some other kind of educational outlet (for which I am already fairly lenient when appropriate). They are sending their friends snaps, plays both games, and texting.

Of course, using phones in class is already against school policy, but it will remain and issue until I am able to take a phone away from a student. At a prior school, this was explicitly against policy becuase it was considered a liability issue as phones are expensive personal property that the school did not want to be responsible for them. Additionally, parents give minimal support and/or flip out when it happens. Very few have the willingness to keep their student's phone at home during the school day even when it is a known and acknowledged problem. Often, they simply don't want to argue with their teen about it.

I believe that we - as a American culture - are still too enamoured with our smart phones to effectively acknowledge the potential negative effects they can have on our attention/learning/cognitive development.

Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by criddell on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @10:06AM (#15914638)
At my kids' school, they encourage appropriate cell phone use in the school. For example, if there is a homework assignment on the board, rather than wait for everybody to copy it down, kids are told to take a picture of the board. They also insist on the kids using some kind of calendar to track everything and most kids use their phone calendar.

There's some kind of Twitter-like service that is used for teacher-student communication and of course they use email and Google Docs a lot.

My kids have had assignments that involve making a movie and their phone is their video camera.

If the kids want to use a computer, they can (they are all issued ThinkPads that are frankly awful) but I think most kids would prefer to use their phones when they can.

Also, the school has a pretty aggressive filter on the wifi so kids that want to access the internet in the school end up using their phone to get access to the things they need.

Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by devmunchies on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @11:11AM (#15915114)
> For example, if there is a homework assignment on the board, rather than wait for everybody to copy it down, kids are told to take a picture of the board

just post the assignment online. Not a reason to allow phones in class.

Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by albedoa on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @11:46AM (#15915380)
The point is not to make up reasons to use phones in class but rather to identify opportunities to teach students responsible use of phones, which will exist outside of class and well into the future.
Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by criddell on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @12:37PM (#15915777)
Some do that as well. Generally though, I support teachers pushing a little bit more responsibility onto the kids.
Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by zxd1098 on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @11:29AM (#15915240)
At work, you’d take a picture of the whiteboard with your phone. It’s a valuable life skill.
Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by andrepd on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @12:01PM (#15915482)
It's snapping a picture of a whiteboard. It's not a "life skill".
Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by criddell on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @12:35PM (#15915766)
The life skill is the responsible and appropriate use of technology. The worst thing the school can do is come up with constraints so narrow that the kids get through school without having to exercise judgement or restraint.
Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by abakker on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @12:05PM (#15915511)
At least, not one people really need to be taught.
Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by didibus on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @12:06PM (#15915527)
Which is a form of data leak, and generally against company policies, even though most people still do it.
Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by irrational on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @12:06PM (#15915521)
My children do not have cell phones (if they want one they can buy it and a data plan themselves - so far that hasn't happened until they are about 18), but teachers assume that every student has a cell phone. The teachers then ask the kids to do things with their cell phones like you are describing. When my kids say they don't have one they are not believed and receive failing grades for the assignment. I've complained to the principal (the school has a policy of no cell phones) but to no avail.
Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by downandout on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @01:07PM (#15916054)
Assuming you can afford at least some kind of inexpensive phone for your kid(s), this is kind of a messed up position to take. Your children are failing classes because you want to make them purchase their own phones and plans, which of course is not realistic. So they failed because of something completely beyond their control and entirely within yours. As a parent, I’d be ashamed of myself if I had allowed that to happen. Even worse, you seem to be bragging that you deprived your children of this necessary tool.

In modern society, a smartphone and plan is as essential for school age children as the clothing you presumably did not make them engage in child labor to buy.

Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by wincy on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @01:54PM (#15916479)
It's not his fault that the school makes assumptions about the lifestyle that he has chosen for his children. I don't plan on giving my children cell phones, either, and would home school sooner than I would be strong armed by the state into buying a device with limitless potential for evil. I don't think children are prepared to own them, even with internet blocks children end up being constantly bombarded (or seeking out) pornography on school issued laptops, smartphones, or any other internet enabled device. I practice what I preach, and have a phone that is only capable of making phone calls because I believe that constant internet access is a detriment to my concentration and my well being. I am proud of being the bulwark my children need to grow up to be well adjusted adults, and I'm not going to let some administrators think they're the bosses because they were appointed by some bureaucracy that I had no say in whatsoever, or be "ashamed" because some stranger on the Internet says I should be.
Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by criddell on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @02:46PM (#15916971)
> It's not his fault that the school makes assumptions about the lifestyle that he has chosen for his children.

I'm not sure they see it as a lifestyle choice. It's just another thing that they expect kids to have. It's been added to the list of binder, paper, pens, laptop, and gym clothes.

Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by irrational on Saturday December 16, 2017 @03:47AM (#15938542)
You misunderstand. I'm not depriving them because I want them to buy their own phones. I'm depriving them because my wife and I believe extremely strongly that children should not have mobile devices, period.
Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by s73ver_ on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @02:33PM (#15916839)
At the same time, the school assuming that every kid has access to this, without providing it themselves, is also pretty messed up.
Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by reaperducer on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @02:01PM (#15916546)
Similar thing happened to me way back in the 80's. The history teacher assumed that every family had a video camera, and the big assignment for the year was for each student to make a video.

When I protested that I didn't have a video camera, she didn't believe me.

Being a resourceful youngster, I managed to get my hands on a second-hand security camera and interface it with my parent's VCR. I ended up getting a D on the assignment because the resulting video was in black-and-white.

Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by criddell on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @12:40PM (#15915810)
I know some of the kids just have old phones from their parents or one of those $40 phones that are hanging in a blister-pack at the drugstore. They use them with the school's wifi so there's no data plan to pay for.
Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by zacpdx on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @01:34PM (#15916275)
congrats you are actively making your children the weird ones
Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by WillReplyfFood on Thursday December 14, 2017 @10:14AM (#15922846)
Weird is good. We started out as a sub-culture of weird ones.

The problem is, that he doesent teach responsible drug use. Which modern phones and the internet basically are. So if you do not show what is appropriate (1 glass of wine) and by example show what you do not (engage in binge drinking) you are not preparing them for the world.

And we all knew how the kid ended up, who never drank a single drink before the class garduated. In diapers in the sickward, after he downed a whole bottle of vodka.

Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by wott on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @08:37PM (#15919321)
> For example, if there is a homework assignment on the board, rather than wait for everybody to copy it down, kids are told to take a picture of the board.

Bad choice: this is losing one opportunity to get them to write something. As a teacher, one should look for every possible occasion to practice writing, especially when it has a purpose.

Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by criddell on Thursday December 14, 2017 @09:44AM (#15922579)
I think they can come up with a writing exercise a little more challenging to high school students than "transcribe these instructions".
Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by imgabe on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @10:56AM (#15915016)
Would it not be possible to have a box at the front of the room that everyone has to put their phone in when they come to class, then they can get it back after class is over?

If anyone's ever been in a secure facility, they have little mail slots, sometimes locking with a key you can take, to store your phone while you go inside. Seems like we could just put one of these in every classroom. That should take care of the liability issue.

Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by irrational on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @12:07PM (#15915541)
Then kids would just bring two phones. The real phone and a dummy phone.
Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by ctrl-j on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @01:06PM (#15916045)
Seems like it'd be pretty easy to enforce this one. A teacher will still catch students on their phone, and then it goes in the box with the dummy phone. Plus punishment for sneaking a phone in.
Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by amigoingtodie on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @12:17PM (#15915616)
We used to call them 'lockers'.
Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by brewdad on Friday December 15, 2017 @01:51AM (#15930102)
And those lockers were not at all secure, at least in my HS. There is no way I would encourage my kid to leave his phone in his locker. He'd be on his 3rd or 4th phone of the year by now.
Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by noobermin on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @11:34AM (#15915280)
This is such a luddite view and frankly almost a power tripping view. Have you thought that they are "addicted" to being social with their friends like normal teenagers are? It already is against policy in most places to have smart phones during class, why ban them during breaks?

It's during freaking breaks. How about let kids be kids for once and stop trying to grope into their personal lives! Why do you need to police their breaks too? How is this not a civil rights issue?

As millenials and gen xers age, they are forgetting they were kids once and are quickly becoming twice the son of hell authoritarians their parents were.

Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by germinalphrase on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @11:59AM (#15915472)
Take a breath. My students have full access to their devices during breaks. They have full access to their friends. They have significant opportunists throughout eh day to socialize. That's not really a problem.

The ability to maintain some sustained attention to a task is a pretty fundamental developmental skill that I - as an educator - am tasked with helping my students develop. Many of my student display a compulsive behavioral need to be on their phones and this has very obvious and immediate impacts on their focus and learning. That's a problem that I don't see being solved at the high school level by casual/cultural policing of behavior during class.

Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by daveFNbuck on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @12:37PM (#15915778)
The break thing is a reference to the ban. The second sentence of the article is "Children will be allowed to bring their phones to school, but not allowed to get them out at any time until they leave, even during breaks." So the ban sounds like your current situation, plus a ban on using phones during breaks.
Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by molsongolden on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @11:52AM (#15915419)
Your comment seems to be lashing out vs. actually addressing the parent comment. The user you are responding to already acknowledged the students are "addicted" to being social and using social media because that is the nature of being a teenager.

> "Of course, using phones in class is already against school policy, but it will remain and issue until I am able to take a phone away from a student. "

They also noted that using a phone in class is against policy but they have no way to enforce this policy... which is their reason for supporting a ban.

Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by andrewla on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @02:33PM (#15916841)
noobermin's comment makes sense and is reasonable when applied to germinalphrase's comment in light of the article itself, which includes in the ban the use of phones during breaks. germinalphrase's comment says "I would strongly favor a ban" and it is reasonable for noobermin to assume that they are referring to the ban in the article, since no exception was made in the original comment for this (although in an uncle post to this germinalphrase does clarify).

I know it's bad form to object to people downvoting your own comment, so I will do it on the GP's behalf.

Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by Veratyr on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @11:55AM (#15915446)
I get where you're coming from but if they're spending their breaks on their phones, they're only interacting with their friends through text rather than face to face. They're still kids and we don't know yet whether that face-to-face interaction they're missing out on will be important to them later in life.

It's not about restricting their freedom, it's about health. It's not a "civil rights issue" if you restrict your kids from eating nothing but greasy burgers every day.

Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by surge on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @11:29AM (#15915238)
It'd be kind of neat if the phones had a mode similar to the "car mode" on Apple phones, where it goes into a DnD mode and becomes inconvenient to unlock and use when at a certain location. So a kid can use the phone, but texting or other features are harder to access in a non-obvious manner and notifications are muted. Almost like being in Airplane mode by default except during in between class breaks.

They are useful tools, but even outside of school they constantly suck away our attention, and apps are designed for this, the constant distraction needs to be curbed, not their use as a pocket computer.

Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by curt15 on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @12:31PM (#15915732)
Tasker on Android is probably comes closest ( http://fieldguide.gizmodo.com/change-your-android-phones-set... ).
Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by philamonster on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @08:31AM (#15914061)
>They are not, generally, breaking their attention away from class for some other kind of educational outlet (for which I am already fairly lenient when appropriate). They are sending their friends snaps, plays both games, and texting.

I'm all for moderation but the kids I have come across in my K-12 experience, if they're not paying attention, are generally pretty bored out of their minds with whatever else is going on in the classroom. Which begs the question; whose fault could that possibly be? The child's or the adult in the room?

Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by coldtea on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @08:38AM (#15914086)
>* I'm all for moderation but the kids I have come across in my K-12 experience, if they're not paying attention, are generally pretty bored out of their minds with whatever else is going on in the classroom. Which begs the question; whose fault could that possibly be? The child's or the adult in the room?*

Well, the kids are supposed to learn things, not to be entertained.

Sometimes the two can coincide, and it's great and inspiring when it does, but the idea that learning must be an entertaining activity only does a disservice to learning, and hampers the progress of the learners. Sometimes it's just hard practice with no fun, and it's done for the sake of learning, not for giggles.

Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by leongrado on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @09:07AM (#15914239)
Completely agree.

The kids who wanted to do well always learned the material no matter how boring the material was taught and the kids who didn't want to learn didn't learn a thing even with the most engaging teacher. Teachers can only do so much.

Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by Retric on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @10:19AM (#15914735)
Kids are not so binary.

Plenty of schools have random assignment for students yet teacher A's students vastly outperform teacher B's students. Sure, the best student in B is generally better than the worst student in A but they are still generally behind the best in A.

Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by tabeth on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @10:37AM (#15914873)
Do you have any research to back this up? I'm curious.
Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by Retric on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @10:56AM (#15915017)
Yes, I am not sure what part you want support for. But, if this interests you I suggest you do a little research on your own.

(http://www.centerforpubliceducation.org/Main-Menu/Staffingst...)

Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by tabeth on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @03:32PM (#15917402)
I have done research and haven't found that "plenty of schools have random assignment for students yet teacher A's students vastly outperform teacher B's students".

I'm very well aware of studies showing that teachers make an impact. That much is obvious. What I'm not aware of is any significant group of schools that regularly use random assignment.

Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by Retric on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @03:38PM (#15917442)
Here is one interesting example: http://www.nber.org/papers/w21407 However, this really comes down to researches not being idiots.

If you mean at the school level, that's a policy choice which is far from universal. However, their are a lot of schools and a meaningful number do random student assignment.

Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by drak0n1c on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @01:21PM (#15916179)
Stand and Deliver was based on a true story.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaime_Escalante

Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by virtualized on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @09:17AM (#15914300)
Learning the right things, in the right ways, is entertaining. I'd argue that school is neither about learning nor about entertainment. School is that experiment with the monkeys and the ladder. Its original purpose was making mindless factory workers. Students became teachers who taught more teachers and so on. What is the actual purpose of school nowadays? It's a place where you can leave your children while you work and it's a checkbox on a CV.
Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by sillypog on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @10:33AM (#15914827)
The school I attended was founded in 1206. I don't think training factory workers was a top priority back then.
Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by bengillies on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @01:00PM (#15915986)
Schools exist for the same reason that farms and factories exist: it's a lot more efficient having specialised workers (in this case teachers) who can do the job far more effectively (in this case teach 30 or so children) than having every person do it themselves (in this case every parent take a large portion of time out of their day to teach their own child individually).

The alternative to school was for girls to help out around the house until they were married off and for boys to either learn their father's trade and then do that for the rest of their lives or get apprenticed off to whoever could take them and then do _that_ for the rest of their lives.

School helps children create a life for themselves. If children don't learn anything there they'll find far fewer paths open to them later on.

Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by smokeyj on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @09:42AM (#15914468)
The kids are fed a sugar cereal diet, get no exercise, and are told to sit still and learn damnit. Meanwhile the rest of their existence is highly stimulating video games and instant gratification.

I blame the adults.

The kids who are at school because they like to learn don't need a teacher. The other kids should learn to hunt and be strong.

Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by philamonster on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @08:58AM (#15914206)
Since when is just being able to hold a student's attention 75% of the time entertainment? It's much more nuanced than my original comment, I understand, but the assumption that simply removing the device (which I agree is the way to go) will suddenly get kids involved in their learning doesn't take into account all the missteps that occur before the child or teacher enter that classroom. Whether it's staffing, fiscal planning at an admin level that reduces actual classroom instruction, lack of classroom management PD for staff that may need it or a permissive parent.
Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by teh_klev on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @12:12PM (#15915572)
> the assumption that simply removing the device...

I don't think anyone is suggesting this is the silver bullet, but it's one less distraction towards the goal of getting kids to learn things and also to learn how to learn.

Re:France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle... by cicero on Wednesday December 13, 2017 @09:14AM (#15914273)
Wrestling with learning a hard subject, even under the best teacher, will often lose out to the instant gratification that is available from a phone if that distraction is available. Adults have problems with this, so why wouldn't children?