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Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by laurieg on Thursday December 07, 2017 @11:18PM (#15876647)
Japan's immigration system seems heavily set up to encourage young people to come, work and then leave.

This startup visa is good for getting a toe-hold on Japan but only targets people out of country. If you live in Japan already (so you might already speak the language and have helpful local knowledge) there aren't any great paths to starting a business without permanent residency. You can't start a side business on a regular work visa. If you change your visa to manage the business and the startup failed you are likely to be "directed to return to your home country", losing all the residence time you have accrued so far.

I've been working as an engineer in Japanese startups for the past few years and I'm kept on 1 year visa renewals. On a one year visa you can never apply for permanent residency.

And on top of this, there is the 5 year "technical trainee" visa, which is a means of getting manual labor in the country temporarily without having to publicize it. All the people on this visa do not have university degrees so after their 5 years are up they must return home and have no chance of residence in Japan (outside of marriage).

Of course, Japan is free to set its own laws. If you look at them the message is clear: "Japan wants your work and taxes, but it doesn't want you"

Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by patio11 on Thursday December 07, 2017 @11:32PM (#15876694)
You can't start a side business on a regular work visa.

You know YC's question "How have you ever hacked a non-technical system?" This is my answer to it. You can start a side business on a regular work visa if the character of your business matches your status of residence and you don't intensify the business to the point where it is undeniable that it is a business as opposed to employment, e.g. by hiring full-time employees.

So, for example, if you were an engineer, and you happened to run a software company on the side, you could convince the Ministry of Justice to accept the argument that you were employed as an engineer by the 個人事業 (sole proprietorship) of you, which (since you have an engineering status of residence) doesn't require their pre-approval, and then (while establishing a record of e.g. tax paying and similar) bootstrap that into a renewal of your status of residence with yourself as the sponsor, and from there roll on to either a management/investor status of residence or one of the other more stable options.

For totally-not-a-lawyer gloss on this I'm happy to chat with anyone; you can make reasonable assumptions as to why I am fairly confident that the MoJ can be convinced to allow this.

Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by btown on Friday December 08, 2017 @01:52AM (#15877156)
For those who haven’t read it, Patrick’s article on Doing Business in Japan http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/ is a fascinating read; on immigration, it goes into about as much detail as the above, but providing much more cultural context.
Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by abhinavkulkarni on Friday December 08, 2017 @01:41AM (#15877112)
> You can't start a side business on a regular work visa.

You can't do that on an H1-B either.

Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by ThrustVectoring on Friday December 08, 2017 @01:47AM (#15877136)
wait, as a non-citizen of Japan you are allowed to sponsor yourself for a work visa? That sounds, uhh, strange.
Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by cgarrigue on Friday December 08, 2017 @06:27AM (#15878065)
A friend who is freelance translator sponsored herself when renewing her work visa (previously she was a colleague of mine and our company sponsored her at that time, but since becoming freelance she's not employed by anybody but herself). She just had to produce proofs for each the recurrent contracts she's got so she can show that she's earning enough money. So yes, sponsoring yourself is possible, but it requires a lot of paperwork to prove you have the mean to live in the country.

I don't know how much difficult it is start your own business in Japan, for this Patrick is clearly the most knowledgeable person here, but once it's done, you just need to give yourself a salary to be able to renew your visa.

Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by rtpg on Friday December 08, 2017 @04:47AM (#15877701)
It's about ensuring you have money, not that you need an invite.

So if you're a freelancer with a bunch of active contracts they let you in.

Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by kalleboo on Friday December 08, 2017 @05:03AM (#15877743)
Not let you in, but let you stay. Self-sponsoring only works on a renewal.
Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by coinme on Friday December 08, 2017 @04:06AM (#15877578)
This is possible in Singapore too. It’s technically the business that is sponsoring you.
Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by mailshanx on Saturday December 09, 2017 @04:19PM (#15888218)
Do you know of anyone who has done this? I'd love to buy them coffee!
Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by sdrothrock on Friday December 08, 2017 @04:03AM (#15877571)
Yes. Essentially you prove you have the funds to do bootstrap and support yourself.
Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by patmcguire on Friday December 08, 2017 @12:59PM (#15880514)
People get O-1's for themselves in the US.
Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by drieddust on Friday December 08, 2017 @12:15AM (#15876839)
That's not just Japan. UK is another example of such behaviour. They killed HSMP (Highly Skilled Migrants Program ) in the name of curbing immigration. But at the same time allowed companies to transfer employees to UK for up to 5 years. So in my view they are no better.

Guess what the very problem it was supposed to solved still exists and immigration is increasing. They are just not getting Highly Skilled immigrants anymore, Strange world!

Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by robk on Friday December 08, 2017 @03:06AM (#15877396)
Hsmp was great but today's Tier 1 Exceptional is arguably the most generous in the western world for tech talent. 5 years with a direct pathway to citizenship. No other in Europe offers a path to citizenship this fast if at all.
Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by calcifer on Friday December 08, 2017 @03:33AM (#15877485)
> No other in Europe offers a path to citizenship this fast if at all.

Netherlands does. Come here as a "highly skilled immigrant", learn the language and become a citizen in 5 years. If you marry a Dutch citizen (and stay married for 3 years), that number is reduced to 3.

Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by yc-kraln on Friday December 08, 2017 @04:47AM (#15877700)
Are you daft? The EU-Blue card matches that in the worst case, and if you meet certain criteria, you can get permanent residency in as little as three years and citizenship in six. Every EU country.
Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by vadimberman on Friday December 15, 2017 @12:44AM (#15929883)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Blue Card requires a job offer, in fact, a binding one. It's a serious threshold to clear.
Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by drieddust on Friday December 08, 2017 @09:46PM (#15883966)
Have you read the requirement of Tier 1 General Exceptional Talent[1] at all? I am reproducing them below. Do you think everyone who wants to come to UK should start on the path of either becoming a public speaker or start working on some sort of public platform to get recognised into these two categories.

You can apply for a Tier 1 (Exceptional Talent) visa if you’ve been endorsed in your field in science, humanities, engineering, medicine, digital technology or the arts as: 1. A recognised leader (exceptional talent) 2. An emerging leader (exceptional promise)

[1]https://www.gov.uk/tier-1-exceptional-talent

Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by whyagaindavid on Friday December 08, 2017 @03:29AM (#15877476)
You can do similarly in Germany. Startup visa €5000 ->after 3 years get Permanent Residency for entrepreneurs->then 4-5 years depending on your visa/naturalisation officer apply for citizenship.
Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by devnonymous on Friday December 08, 2017 @04:48AM (#15877706)
Ireland offers this too afaik and so does Germany (with the catch that you reach B1 level proficiency in German)
Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by azernik on Friday December 08, 2017 @01:46AM (#15877132)
What's different about Japan is that this is just about the only way to immigrate; Western countries typically have skilled guest worker programs in addition to more general immigration.
Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by thedailymail on Friday December 08, 2017 @04:02AM (#15877568)
That's not really true. There are quite a few working visa categories for professionals in engineering, medicine, journalism, higher education, etc. in addition to the lower-skill categories for basic English teaching and "entertainment." The government has also introduced a points-based system that prioritizes visas for people with more skills/experience/income, and has been making it a lot easier to get longer-term visas and permanent residency.
Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by reaperducer on Friday December 08, 2017 @06:57PM (#15883187)
He's right. Japan is worried about its depopulation problem. I've read articles about all different ways that Japan is loosening its immigration process.
Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by enothereska on Friday December 08, 2017 @06:34AM (#15878081)
I wouldn't compare UK with Japan. The path to permanent residence and citizenship in the UK is clear and straightforward. That has led to a solid number of startups in the UK.
Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by hardwaresofton on Thursday December 07, 2017 @11:23PM (#15876666)
I absolutely agree with the message you've arrived at and think you're right, along with the fact that they're free to set their own laws/determine their stance about the outside world.

One minor correction: I think you can become eligible for permanent residency with consistent 1 year visas -- from what I understand as long as the TYPE of visa is unchanged and you've had the same type of visa for 5-7 years it counts well towards the (quite recently developed) points system they use. Previously, I thought it was just 5-7 years of same VISA and you're in a pretty good spot, but turns out there's a point system now.

Here's the official documentation (japanese, unfortunately): http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/english/tetuduki/zairyuu/eizyuu.ht...

Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by laurieg on Thursday December 07, 2017 @11:29PM (#15876687)
Regular working visas and the points system are completely seperate systems.

It is true that if you have enough points on the highly skilled professional visa you can get permanent residence (PR) in only one year.

On a regular work visa you must have 10 years consecutive residence in Japan and "must hold the longest visa type available to you (for these purposes longest means 3 or 5 years)" (my rough translation).

I have consulted with an immigration lawyer on the topic of applying for PR with a 1 year visa and he confirms this.

Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by mikekchar on Friday December 08, 2017 @01:56AM (#15877173)
Do you have any idea why they are giving you only 1 year renewals? Previously on an instructor visa I had no trouble getting a 3 year renewal -- even though I only had 1 year contracts at my employer. I wonder if it's because they see your employer as being risky (given that it's a startup). You might consider trying to get a job somewhere bigger (or trying to get a full time position) if you want to stay in Japan forever.
Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by hardwaresofton on Thursday December 07, 2017 @11:34PM (#15876703)
Hey do you have any links for the points system vs the work visa systems, that are in english for people that might be interested? Even japanese would be helpful as well.

Also, +1 for consulting with immigration lawyers. I employ/consult with one as well, and that's about the best information you can get, it's well worth the money (and usually the consultation is free) -- they're very unlikely to get the paperwork/process wrong.

Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by laurieg on Friday December 08, 2017 @01:16AM (#15877028)
The immigration bureau has an English page for the highly skilled professional visa: http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/newimmiact_3/en/

The English page for immigration has lots of information, but it is quite vague and not wonderfully organized.

Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by makx on Friday December 08, 2017 @05:18AM (#15877784)
> You can't start a side business on a regular work visa.

This is incorrect.

A friend of mine started a businesses on a work visa and I myself have even started a business on a student visa [1]. No legal problems. I just recently switched from "Student" to "Manager" visa, and immigration had no problems with the fact that the business was already running for over a year before I applied for my residence status to be changed.

[1] http://marui-plugin.blogspot.jp/2016/11/starting-company-as-...

Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by laurieg on Saturday December 09, 2017 @01:38AM (#15884624)
Sorry if my statement was inaccurate. The legal advice I have received states that if I were to start a company I would need to change residence types or would be unable to renew my current visa.

So how does your friend renew his visa? Does he renew as a standard work visa and declare his company at the same time?

Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by makx on Saturday December 09, 2017 @07:41PM (#15889037)
As long as you have your current position (employment in my friends case or university enrollment in my case) you can extend the visa on those grounds, basically making you business a "side-business". After you quit your job or leave university, your visa stays valid until the end of the term. When the visa expires, you will have to apply for a Business Manager (経営者) visa, because you are not an employee (授業員) at your company, but an executive (役員).
Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by matt4077 on Friday December 08, 2017 @03:40AM (#15877504)
From reading this policy, it seems there are two competing issues at stake:

- It seems necessary to attract the young & creative types. First, because everyone is doing it. And, second, because Japan has has a rather huge problem, not just with age, but with a general lack of anyone doing anything new and/or different.

- But Japan happens to be off the charts when it comes to the desire not to mingle with foreigners. It's not that visible, or in the news, because they're less likely to openly show it, or engage in violence. But foreigners are in even lower regard than young people.[0]

So you end up with this sort of policy, that has exactly zero chance of attracting anybody unless they see some specific opportunity in Japan.

[0]: Case in point: the EU admitted 1.4 Million refugees in 2015&2016. US: 210,000, Canada: 120,000. Japan: 9.

Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by Boothroid on Friday December 08, 2017 @05:36AM (#15877859)
Some obvious discrepancies around permitted speech on this topic. Say you like traditional British values and think they are being undermined by immigration: "Racist! Xenophobe! There are no traditional British values anymore! Go back to the Daily Mail little Englander!"

Point out that Israel or Japan have immigration policy that are highly exclusive: wind blowing, tumbleweed..

Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by ekianjo on Thursday December 07, 2017 @11:33PM (#15876701)
> Japan's immigration system seems heavily set up to encourage young people to come, work and then leave.

Indeed, even though you have to pay all taxes like a local when you live in Japan, you can never benefit from stuff like pensions if you ever want to retire there.

Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by laurieg on Friday December 08, 2017 @12:13AM (#15876830)
This is not true. If you have permanent residence you can retire in Japan and claim the National Pension if you paid in for enough years. In fact, recently the number of years of payment required was reduced from 25 to 10.
Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by mikekchar on Friday December 08, 2017 @02:08AM (#15877219)
There are other categories of visas where you can receive the National Pension as well. I'm on a spousal visa and I'm pretty sure I can receive a pension even if I don't get permanent residence (or at least that's what they told me at the city hall). As glandium says I can also receive what I put in through the pension system in Canada and the UK (the only 2 places I checked). Also, if you don't want to receive a pension, you can also receive most of what you paid into the system when you leave the country. Unless you have only staid for a year or so, though, it's probably better to leave it there, financially. Finally, the city hall also told me that if you have been paying into a compatible pension system in another country, the number of years paying into that system counts for the number of years in the Japanese system (but you have to roll the 2 pensions together).

It's worth checking diligently to make sure that you don't fall through some bureaucratic cracks in the system, but it seems surprisingly robust.

Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by glandium on Friday December 08, 2017 @12:37AM (#15876902)
There are also bilateral agreements between Japan and other countries regarding pension, and how the years you paid in both can cumulate.
Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by pwim on Friday December 08, 2017 @03:11AM (#15877412)
It sucks to hear you've been getting one year renewals. Unfortunately when it comes to bureaucracy here in Japan, things are on a case by case basis, so its hard to make any sweeping judgements. As a counterpoint, I came here on a working holiday visa (6 months) and found a job at a Japanese startup. When I renewed my visa, I switched to an Engineer visa and got a three year one.

Mid-way through that three year visa, I quit, and created a consulting company. After consulting with an immigration lawyer, I was told it was "probably ok" to be the director of a company on an Engineering visa, so long as the primary thing I was doing was Engineering related. When my three year visa expired, I successfully had my own company sponsor it, and got another three year one, followed by a five year one. Last year, I successfully got PR here.

Its hard to say why you're continually getting one year visa renewals. If you're not already doing it, it could be worth having an immigration lawyer submit the application on your behalf. Because it was a cheap business expense (~80,000 JPY) compared to the cost of screwing something minor up, that's what I did for every renewal I did under my own company (for PR, I did it myself though).

I'd argue that Japan has a relatively friendly policy for skilled immigrants. To get a job as a developer here, all you need is a company that's willing to sponsor your visa and a university degree in a related field. As far as I'm aware, there's no onus on the company to prove they couldn't get a Japanese to fill the position, or quotas on the number of visas like there are in other countries (US for instance).

Furthermore, a great thing about Japanese working visas are that they aren't tied to a specific company, only the field of work (which they've made broader by combining several statuses into the Engineer/Specialist in Humanities/International Services visa category). This means once you have a visa here, you can easily switch jobs, and even if your company was to lay you off or you were to quit, you don't immediately need to return to your country.

What's more, Japan's introduced a points based system to give preferential treatment to highly skilled professionals. While the points they give create a bias towards someone coming from academia or working at a large well paying job, it makes it theoretically possible to get PR here without being married to a Japanese citizen after one year.

There are a lot of problems with Japan. I agree with you that the trainee visa is one big one. The lack of being able to get a clear answer about immigration status issues also makes it challenging, and encourages you to take a certain amount of risk in stepping into a grey area legally, which I understand will hold some people back. But for me personally, and other foreign entrepreneurs around me, it has made it possible to transition from being an employee to entrepreneur with relatively little investment compared to what is required in other countries.

If anyone is interested in more detail about transitioning from an engineer to entrepreneur here, I've written more about my experience here: http://www.tokyodev.com/2014/04/17/creating-company-japan/.

Re:Japan eyes startup visa program by gabrielrondon on Friday December 08, 2017 @02:21AM (#15877250)
I agree. Also, It is a trend in some EU countries. This kind of program tries to boost the economy.