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Re:An $814M Mystery Near the Heart of the Biggest Bitcoin Ex... by aaavl2821 on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @11:24AM (#15852722)
The statement that "this is impossible with bitcoin" is false. While initially bitcoins are issued as proof of work, as soon as there is a somewhat liquid secondary market then bitcoin becomes a financial asset with a value determined by the market. That value is effectively completely indepdent of any "inherent value" and fully determined by supply and demand
Re:An $814M Mystery Near the Heart of the Biggest Bitcoin Ex... by python-guy-vt on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @11:36AM (#15852848)
> fully determined by supply and demand

With bitcoin you cannot manipulate the supply, therefore you can't magically create $800M out of thin air.

Re:An $814M Mystery Near the Heart of the Biggest Bitcoin Ex... by aaavl2821 on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @11:59AM (#15853080)
But the demand can change. Given a constant quantity supplied and an increase in demand, price goes up

If you cannot increase supply in response to a higher price driven by higher demand, prices will increase even more

See this Econ 101 chart [1]:

Y axis represents price, x axis represents quantity. The lines represent simplified supply and demand curves (Wikipedia can explain why they are shaped as they are)

Initial supply and demand is represented by supply "s" and demand "d". Their intersection gives us initial price "p1" and quantity produced "q1".

If demand increases from "d" to "d2", normally suppliers would produce more to meet the new demand. So the price would increase to "p2" and quantity increase to "q2". So even here you get a price increase

But with supply constrained assets like bitcoin, you can't increase quantity supplied to q2. So the only way the market can absorb new demand is by a further price increase. Basically more people want a good, but more can't be made, so sellers rationally realize they can charge more. In the chart, the new price would be the point where the dotted vertical line above q1 intersects with d2

[1] https://goo.gl/images/PT23GG

Re:An $814M Mystery Near the Heart of the Biggest Bitcoin Ex... by pascalxus on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @05:03PM (#15856460)
Just like housing in the bay area. The supply can never increase, hence prices must go up, even if no almost no one can afford it. All that matters is that the .001% of the population that's buying houses can afford those higher prices.
Re:An $814M Mystery Near the Heart of the Biggest Bitcoin Ex... by mancerayder on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @12:41PM (#15853608)
You're fundamentally missing the main idea here. If you don't understand the fake Tether situation then in this case consider:

Someone makes 1M of counterfeit US Dollars using their own printing machine and puts it in a suitcase, and they exchange that suitcase with you, and in return you give them 1M of bitcoin in their digital wallets.

Now do you understand the thread?

Re:An $814M Mystery Near the Heart of the Biggest Bitcoin Ex... by python-guy-vt on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @04:23PM (#15856149)
Your example is a reflection on counterfeiter and the person being deceived. That has nothing to do with the value of bitcoin.
Re:An $814M Mystery Near the Heart of the Biggest Bitcoin Ex... by cstrat on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @11:28PM (#15858511)
The value of BTC skyrockets back in 2014 with MtGox due to the WillyBot (https://willyreport.wordpress.com)...

The price of BTC on other exchanges (which had no direct trades from that bot) was still affected and it went up across the board on all exchanges.

So the value of BTC can be manipulated...

Re:An $814M Mystery Near the Heart of the Biggest Bitcoin Ex... by gmueckl on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @11:50AM (#15852991)
Not true. A simple recipe for manipulating Bitcoin supply by acting as a bank:

1. Create accounts for customers. Balances are private and not connected to wallets

2. Keep Bitcoins used to cover the accounts in a single bank wallet.

3. Rely on the observation that customers won't withdraw all their Bitcoins at the same time and use bank wallet for trading in the bank's name.

This is basically how every normal bank in the world operates, except that the amount of money the have to keep in reserve is heavily regulated so that this scheme does not turn into an infinite pool of money. There is no such regulation for cryptocurrencies.

Re:An $814M Mystery Near the Heart of the Biggest Bitcoin Ex... by querulous on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @11:42AM (#15852898)
that's not how markets work. bitcoin has no intrinsic value, just a exchange rate with other things
Re:An $814M Mystery Near the Heart of the Biggest Bitcoin Ex... by python-guy-vt on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @11:53AM (#15853018)
that is exactly how markets work.

> bitcoin has no intrinsic value, just a exchange rate with other things

1. It has proof-of-work, which gives it value 2. Supply of the coin and demand for the coins determine the price.

The only thing that can vary widely is the demand, the supply cannot be fucked with (unlike fiat currency). It is impossible for whole bunch of new coins to suddenly appear out of thin air. There is no way to artificially inflate the supply.

Re:An $814M Mystery Near the Heart of the Biggest Bitcoin Ex... by FooHentai on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @04:19PM (#15856089)
>1. It has proof-of-work, which gives it value

"I burned a bunch of electricity and created a cryptographically provable magic token".

There is no value here beyond exchanges with the other bitcoin speculators around you. The value you describe is no different to the value of a pixel on the million dollar homepage.

There will be a point where the emperor is revealed to have no clothes and when you try to extract actual value from the bitcoins that you are holding (i.e. sell them), you will find there is nobody who wants to buy.

Although if you like, I'll trade for beanie babies. I've got rare ones, nobody else has these. They only made a few.

Re:An $814M Mystery Near the Heart of the Biggest Bitcoin Ex... by Nursie on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @01:50PM (#15854482)
Proof of work doesn't give it value. That value (energy) is lost to heat, and the amount put in tends to rise with the market value.

The value dictates the amount of PoW needed, not the other way round.

Re:An $814M Mystery Near the Heart of the Biggest Bitcoin Ex... by querulous on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @01:05PM (#15853945)
we're not talking about the number of bitcoins though, we're talking about it's value
Re:An $814M Mystery Near the Heart of the Biggest Bitcoin Ex... by python-guy-vt on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @04:24PM (#15856157)
you can't talk about value without talking about supply
Re:An $814M Mystery Near the Heart of the Biggest Bitcoin Ex... by uberrr on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @12:53PM (#15853772)
You’re assuming that the balances claimed by the exchanges are actually held in reserve.