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Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by benwilber0 on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @08:04PM (#15812463)
> It is limited to 21 million units

A "unit" consists of 100,000,000 "satoshis", just as 21 million "dollars" consists of 2,100,000,000 pennies. It's just an arbitrary unit of denomination. I guess the difference is there would only ever be 2.1 quadrillion "satoshis", instead of basically an infinite number of "pennies".

Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by stvswn on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @08:21PM (#15812573)
This criticism is not meant to say that each BTC will become practically too expensive to buy; we all understand that there are granular subdivisions. It's meant to say that a fixed money supply means that as usage of a currency expands, demand for the currency will increase, and supply cannot match. If the value of BTC continues to rise, you'll never want to buy anything with it -- why not wait 10 minutes for the price to drop? In the same sense, you'd never want to sell anything for bitcoin. You'd need to update the price several times a day! It's not very useful as a currency. This is a fundamental flaw with BTC, because there's absolutely nothing anyone can do to fix it, it's hardcoded.

If we're all being honest with ourselves, people are buying BTC now because they expect the price to go up -- not because they expect to use it as a currency in the future. I don't think we know it's a bubble. No one can really know that. I think we do know that it's being used only for speculation at the moment, which makes it a commodity, not a currency.

Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by mrb on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @11:54PM (#15813569)
«If the value of BTC continues to rise, you'll never want to buy anything with it»

That's a fallacy that keeps being repeated by those who never thought this logic through. I spend bitcoins. I have been spending them for 7 years. Because the thing is no one knows for sure that Bitcoin will keep rising, or even maintain its value. Therefore spending bitcoins today is actually logically the less risky option.

In fact I can show that your argument doesn't hold in another way: if you think the value will keep rising, you should be putting all your life savings into Bitcoin at this very moment... And I know you are not doing it, because you don't know if Bitcoin will keep rising.

Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by Frogolocalypse on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @10:25PM (#15813223)
> If the value of BTC continues to rise, you'll never want to buy anything with it -- why not wait 10 minutes for the price to drop?

That seems to be latest meme for attacking bitcoin. You know what makes new want to spend my bitcoin? I have a bitcoin debit card, and i like beer. Not a beer in 10 minutes either. So i buy it. The only difference is that the money in my wallet isn't being debased while I'm not buying beer with it. So beer just keeps getting cheaper.

Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by cstrat on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @10:44PM (#15813306)
> not a beer in 10 minutes

the transaction would likely take much longer than 10 minutes - unless you paid a transaction fee worth many times the cost of the beer :)

Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by pteredactyl on Thursday November 30, 2017 @12:57AM (#15813806)
Not if it’s transacted over a secondary market or exchange. People don’t understand this.

For example, if you transact BTC directly over the network, yea it’ll be expensive. Like 5-8%. But if I transact through an exchange, it’s more like .25-.5%. And it’s instantaneous. They’re a clearinghouse that batches transactions periodically.

Seems there’s a lot of misunderstanding about money in general, including crypto. I for one am glad awareness is raising. As I truly believe money/finance/capital is an extreme, if not the greatest, form of control.

Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by qplex on Thursday November 30, 2017 @05:47AM (#15814830)
If you store your coins in an exchange you don't have control over them. People don't understand this.

Edit: And 5-8% transaction rates are absolutely insane for a payment system.

Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by ric2b on Thursday November 30, 2017 @07:35AM (#15815239)
It's not a percentage, you pay the same fee whether you're sending 20 cents or 20 million, you're paying for the space your transaction takes up on the block.

It's actually not even that, the miners just choose the transactions that pay the highest fees each time they create a block, to maximize their revenue, so you can choose whatever fee you're willing to pay and it might or might not be included depending on what other people are willing to pay.

Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by qplex on Thursday November 30, 2017 @12:26PM (#15817528)
What? Yes, but there is no reason you can't present the percentage after the transaction is complete.

Also you don't usually buy beer for 20 million, hence the rates will be in the mentioned ballpark.

Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by ric2b on Tuesday December 05, 2017 @12:18PM (#15853304)
But why mention the percentage? Just say the absolute value itself. $x per transaction.
Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by pteredactyl on Thursday November 30, 2017 @06:29AM (#15814963)
Fair. I agree, assuming control in the strictest sense. The lower transaction costs in an exchange compensates for less control.
Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by imtringued on Thursday November 30, 2017 @07:59AM (#15815371)
So to solve bitcoin's problems they reinvent the current centralised banking system?
Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by Frogolocalypse on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @10:46PM (#15813311)
Or i just use my bitcoin debit card?
Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by cstrat on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @11:27PM (#15813474)
oh so it is off-chain then? haven't really seen a product like that. Must be the same as leaving your coins in an exchange and converting to fiat when you spend?
Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by Frogolocalypse on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @11:54PM (#15813572)
> so it is off-chain then?

Yup.

> Must be the same as leaving your coins in an exchange and converting to fiat when you spend?

Yep. I just transfer bitcoin there when I need it. These days though, I just put the cash I want for the next couple of weeks from a paycheck onto it. I actually have to move bitcoin off the exchange, because it has increased so greatly over the past few months. My beer money is increasing in value faster than I spend it.

Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by pteredactyl on Thursday November 30, 2017 @12:58AM (#15813810)
Exchanges like Coinbase or Gemini are a less liquid example of this.
Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by ponco on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @08:43PM (#15812721)
That's the fundamental thing people are missing I think. Menu costs are a thing.
Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by cwkoss on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @08:39PM (#15812690)
Bitcoin is still useful for settlement. It's not so useful for pricing things.
Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by jnordwick on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @10:19PM (#15813197)
No its not. Of BTC is constantly in flux you would never want to write or buy bonds in it. You wouldn't know what you are getting paid back in. Strongly related, if you settle in btc the currency risk (that the fx rate would change) is too great.
Re:Bitcoin ‘Ought to Be Outlawed,’ Nobel Prize Winner Stigli... by anonymous5133 on Thursday November 30, 2017 @02:35AM (#15814052)
You can modify the code to increase the decimal point. It is hard coded to 8 decimal points right now but there is nothing preventing a consensus agreement from increasing it to 1,000,000 or more decimal places.