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Re:Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student l... by Retric on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @10:13AM (#15797919)
If your pulling in ~10,000$ per person in tuition, and the average person takes 5 classes with a class size of 30 that's. 60,000$ per professor per year if they teach 4 classes, 75,000$ per professor if they teach 5 and 90k & 6 classes before expenses per class. So, the only way for that to work out is some other subsidies.

However, lectures allow you to use TA's to more cheaply expand class sizes and might make it possible at the undergrad level.

Re:Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student l... by bmcusick on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @10:19AM (#15797991)
Why even use TAs for lectures? There's YouTube. There's automated software for quizzes and testing. Textbooks should be open source documentation, printed-on-demand.

I'm not saying remove the human element entirely, but there's a lot of low hanging fruit in education to consider where technological automation can help improve the productivity of educators.

Check out how Georgia Institute of Technology is offering a real CS Master's Degree for a fraction of the cost using similar stuff: https://www.omscs.gatech.edu/

Re:Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student l... by theorique on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @11:28AM (#15798665)
I'm not saying remove the human element entirely, but there's a lot of low hanging fruit in education to consider where technological automation can help improve the productivity of educators.

This x1000. With all the improvement in educational technology, it's weird that the gold standard of elite education apparently remains the lecture.

I am reminded of the quote: College is a place where a professor’s lecture notes go straight to the students’ lecture notes, without passing through the brains of either.

Part of the issue is that college-as-elite-networking-venue needs to remain scarce, by definition, if it is to retain its value. If everyone can "go to Harvard" (through online delivery, enhanced ed-tech, automation, etc) then the scarcity is lessened. When you go to an elite college, you don't just get an education, you get association with a brand that, you hope, retains and increases in value.

Re:Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student l... by dsfyu404ed on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @01:09PM (#15799753)
> it's weird that the gold standard of elite education apparently remains the lecture.

What makes one a good prof/teacher/lecturer for a given department, subject matter or set of students may not make one a good prof/teacher/lecturer for a different department, subject matter or set of students.

The quality of an instructor as a prof/teacher/lecturer for a given department, subject matter or set of students implies nothing about the their quality in any of those attributes for the same setting or the same attribute if the department, subject matter or set of students changes.

I recall having a discussion with another student who had very similar abilities and interests. We agreed about the quality of the profs we had in common except for one where one of us thought he was a great teacher and lecturer but terrible at the rest of being a prof and the other thought he did a great job as a prof but was a terrible teacher/lecturer.

Re:Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student l... by murph-almighty on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @11:56AM (#15798949)
>improvement in educational technology

I'd like to point out that there's also plenty of utterly crappy educational technology that only exists to nickel and dime students for licenses. See MyMathLab.

Re:Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student l... by Retric on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @12:42PM (#15799462)
Their is some evidence this simply does not work as well. MOOC's demonstrate you can perhaps get ~80% of the benefit of an introductory lecture online, but they don't carry as well into more interactive styles.

Really face time with a professor is not directly the huge cost you might think. Class participation and helping students during office hours don't scale very well. On top of that it's much simpler to cheat in an online only environment.

Honestly, I think High school is probably a better place for this kind of automation. Setting up a rotation where you have say both a small and double sized classroom seems very possible.

Re:Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student l... by lefrancaiz on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @10:21AM (#15798005)
You can have a professor teach more than one class too. Then your math changes significantly.
Re:Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student l... by jackpeterfletch on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @10:43AM (#15798204)
All professors take many more than 1 class?!

In the UK a professor might take 3-6 lectures and 1-3 classes a week, and they're often staffed by masters students.

Re:Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student l... by Retric on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @10:46AM (#15798241)
Was editing 60k is teaching 4 classes with students paying 10k over 4 years. 90k for 6 classes but that's before expenses such as administration, the buildings etc.

It might be possible to nominally get that number but only if your hiding other costs.

Re:Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student l... by ghostbrainalpha on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @10:18AM (#15797983)
But Brown's tuition for out of state students is just under $50,000 per year per student.

Does that mean they could be paying those professors $300,000?

Re:Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student l... by seanmcdirmid on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @10:42AM (#15798185)
Brown is private, so there is no distinction for out of state students.
Re:Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student l... by Retric on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @10:50AM (#15798282)
That's nominally 50k/student they can then offer scholarships so it's possibly nobody actually pays that much.

Further, just having a teacher without a classroom is not going to get you very far. Still, assuming the average student pays 1/2 that much per year they can probably cut the costs significantly.

Re:Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student l... by timthelion on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @10:22AM (#15798013)
Aren't there other expenses like maintaining the campus and paying for journal subscriptions and research equipment?
Re:Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student l... by nascar_is_bad on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @10:38AM (#15798151)
are you just listing off the things you think a university spends money on?