On Moral Superiority

Re:On Moral Superiority by jerf on Tuesday August 03, 2010 @05:56PM (#1572899)

You just explained part of why a centralized system is less efficient, though even if you remove all those problems a centralized system still can not beat a capitalistic system with its superior capital allocation via pricing mechanisms. But those things are an intrinsic part of having a fully centralized system. Somebody not in the favored central government is going to want to be in the favored central government clique, and in the absence of other mechanisms to keep them in check (like letting the market decide who wins or even having both win), it's going to turn to violence. Proponents of centralized government can't ignore this aspect of their proposals and thereby forget they are talking about governing humans, and not abstract beings without ambition, happy to be drones.

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Re:On Moral Superiority by gnosis on Tuesday August 03, 2010 @06:14PM (#1572954)

"You just explained part of why a centralized system is less efficient,"

Um.. No. I explained some of the reasons why the Soviet Union collapsed. No other "centralized system" had the particular history that the Soviet Union had. It was absolutely unique. And I can see no reason why any other "centralized system" must have all, or even any, of those negative factors which caused the Soviet Union to collapse.

"even if you remove all those problems a centralized system still can not beat a capitalistic system with its superior capital allocation via pricing mechanisms"

This statement of yours sounds like an avowal of ideology (an ideology that's sadly all too prevalent on HN), rather than any sort of argument in favor of capitalism or against communism.

"Somebody not in the favored central government is going to want to be in the favored central government clique, and in the absence of other mechanisms to keep them in check (like letting the market decide who wins or even having both win), it's going to turn to violence."

Are you saying that "favored central government cliques" and violence aren't possible in capitalist systems? Even a superficial look at a model capitalist country like the US will reveal their presence.

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Re:On Moral Superiority by jerf on Wednesday August 04, 2010 @01:13PM (#1575050)

"This statement of yours sounds like an avowal of ideology (an ideology that's sadly all too prevalent on HN), rather than any sort of argument in favor of capitalism or against communism."

No, it's a reflection of Economics 101, really. You simply can not replicate the amount of information in a price in a centralized system, it's actually impossible.

Walk through the first few chapters of http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Academic/Price_Theory/PThy_ToC... . No, seriously, do it. The first few chapters are very basic and if you can just wave them away as "ideological" then we're done here anyhow. Prices contain a lot of information and no central authority can match it. They especially can't match it if they believe prices are a moral issue and they ignore the basis of them in the first place.

"Are you saying that "favored central government cliques" and violence aren't possible in capitalist systems? Even a superficial look at a model capitalist country like the US will reveal their presence."

First, the US is not a model capitalist country and has not been in a long time. The idea that the US is some sort of unrestricted capitalist paradise is propaganda, not fact. Second, your logic here is terrible. When I say that the only outlet for advancement is one or another form of violence in a centralized system, therefore I am claiming that in a capitalistic system it is never a form of advancement? If you're not even reading my actual points and you're willing to bend what I'm saying that hard, or you can't even see the grievous crime against logic you just committed, that's not even worth replying to.

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