News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Electronic Lottery Tickets as Micropayments (‎1997) by awakeasleep on Tuesday November 14, 2017 @08:26PM (#15700831)
This is so brilliant. I've thought about micropayments so much and never found a practical way to do them. And this is so simple it seems like anyone should have thought of it!
Re:Electronic Lottery Tickets as Micropayments (‎1997) by pfranz on Tuesday November 14, 2017 @09:56PM (#15701143)
The whole blocker to micro payments were banks and credit card companies (same reason ACH is so archaic even though other companies have much better systems--they decided it's not in their interest to improve it). Credit cards have a flat fee, plus a percentage. That's why small businesses have a minimum purchase price (even though it's against their merchant agreement).

When it first started I figured PayPal would have enabled microtransactions, but I gave up on that years ago. Venmo could, but it doesn't seem like that's the market they're focused on. Bitcoin would fill that niche, but it has a few other barriers.

Re:Electronic Lottery Tickets as Micropayments (‎1997) by kobeya on Wednesday November 15, 2017 @02:24AM (#15702053)
It is more recently called “probabilistic payments” and that search phrase will get you some results of such constructions in bitcoin among other things.
Re:Electronic Lottery Tickets as Micropayments (‎1997) by wolfram74 on Tuesday November 14, 2017 @09:12PM (#15700980)
How hard do you think this would be to implement on top of the Venmo or stripe API?
Re:Electronic Lottery Tickets as Micropayments (‎1997) by DennisP on Tuesday November 14, 2017 @09:25PM (#15701025)
I don't know but I'm working on an Ethereum implementation right now, and it's pretty easy.
Re:Electronic Lottery Tickets as Micropayments (‎1997) by tgb on Tuesday November 14, 2017 @10:00PM (#15701156)
I don't know anything about this, but how do you make randomness in Ethereum? I assume it has to replicable across any computer and therefore would be pseudo-random and predictable. Do you use something like the NIST randomness beacon at a specified future time?
Re:Electronic Lottery Tickets as Micropayments (‎1997) by zaroth on Tuesday November 14, 2017 @11:53PM (#15701538)
Google "provably fair bitcoin lottery". They typically are based on a future block's hash value combined with a published random seed.

Here's an example: https://github.com/hmel/bitcoin-raffle

Re:Electronic Lottery Tickets as Micropayments (‎1997) by themadryaner on Wednesday November 15, 2017 @12:12AM (#15701613)
In theory, a miner could try to manipulate the hash of the future block to change the outcome. It is much more difficult with Bitcoin, where valid blocks are more rare and produce a high income, but with Ethereum blocks are so frequent that it might be possible to collude with the mining pools is done on a large scale.

Additionally, how does this deal with Proof-of-Stake algorithms? Ethereum is heading there, and as far as I am aware the blocks would no longer publish hashes.

Re:Electronic Lottery Tickets as Micropayments (‎1997) by rrobukef on Wednesday November 15, 2017 @04:43AM (#15702625)
A sybill attack would greatly increase the probability. And has cheatingly other gains.
Re:Electronic Lottery Tickets as Micropayments (‎1997) by kobeya on Wednesday November 15, 2017 @02:26AM (#15702057)
No need for a future block. Recipient commits to the hash of a value. Payer signs a value. Hash the preimage (revealed in claim) and the signed value together. If less than a threshold, pass.
Re:Electronic Lottery Tickets as Micropayments (‎1997) by infogulch on Wednesday November 15, 2017 @02:39AM (#15702095)
As long as neither party has any way to manipulate the hash. Should probably add a 0th step where the payer commits to use a specific signature.
Re:Electronic Lottery Tickets as Micropayments (‎1997) by kobeya on Wednesday November 15, 2017 @05:37AM (#15702815)
The signature doesn't matter. Allowing the payer to change it only increases (potentially) the odds of them having to pay, which they won't do. In some constructions--in others it has no effect.
Re:Electronic Lottery Tickets as Micropayments (‎1997) by infogulch on Wednesday November 15, 2017 @11:49AM (#15705158)
Ok it looks better after looking at it again. Thanks.