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Re:The Booming Japanese Rent-A-Friend Business by sho on Thursday November 09, 2017 @06:17AM (#15661489)
The article specifically mentions the positive outcome of the arrangement - the young woman's confidence has improved, destructive behaviour stopped, bullying stopped, and she has the father figure she obviously needs at this critical part of her development. And from all appearances he is genuinely doing his best to be that.

It's very hard for me to condemn this when the outcome seems so inarguably positive. Truthfulness is important, yes, but so is outcome. And if this woman after ten or twenty years, when she is well-adjusted with a career and family of her own, finds out the truth, would she be angry with her mother - or thank her?

Ethics is not black and white. It can often be a struggle between multiple competing imperatives. This is a Trolley Problem for the human soul.

O righteous crusaders for truth, if this girl was put in front of you, would you tell her?

Re:The Booming Japanese Rent-A-Friend Business by Pharylon on Thursday November 09, 2017 @07:16AM (#15661760)
It seems positive from what he says, but we only have one side of the story.

How does the daughter feel about having a father she sees so infrequently? Is it hard on her? Does she wonder why he won't come help her when she calls him out of the blue over some emergency? Now that she's older, would it be easier for her to know the truth?

We don't know. What I do know is eventually she'll find out, somehow. What happens then?

Re:The Booming Japanese Rent-A-Friend Business by belorn on Thursday November 09, 2017 @08:40AM (#15662226)
This question should be possible to be semi-answered by psychology studies. Do stability during the teen years outweigh a large negative event during adolescence? Seems like a question that researchers has been poking at for the last 100 years.

Bullying also has its own share of research (https://www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/bullying/conditionin...). It will not be easy to get a fair evaluation of harm vs harm mitigation.

Re:The Booming Japanese Rent-A-Friend Business by dragontamer on Thursday November 09, 2017 @01:14PM (#15664509)
Her real father left.

So the real question is: is the 4-hours a week of fake fatherhood better than being a bullied, emotionally traumatized kid throughout some of the hardest moments of growing up?

Its a fake, rent-a-father for 4 hours a week. But that fake fatherhood is probably way better than no fatherhood at all.

Its a difficult moral question for sure.

Re:The Booming Japanese Rent-A-Friend Business by hutzlibu on Thursday November 09, 2017 @05:50PM (#15666425)
"O righteous crusaders for truth, if this girl was put in front of you, would you tell her?"

Maybe yes. Along with the fact that her fake father dreams about telling her the truth, but is afraid to do so. So then they can maybe have a real relationship and see each other whenever they want to and not only when her mother pays him to be professional.

Because clearly both have a real connection.

Btw. is he not scared of openl publishing all this? Or does no one in japan reads english magazines?

Re:The Booming Japanese Rent-A-Friend Business by mdda on Friday November 10, 2017 @01:21AM (#15668317)
He may have sent an actor along to represent him for the interview / photoshoot.
Re:The Booming Japanese Rent-A-Friend Business by musage on Thursday November 09, 2017 @08:28AM (#15662155)
> the young woman's confidence has improved, destructive behaviour stopped, bullying stopped

What makes you think that wouldn't have happened over time by itself? What's the message here, bullying someone for having lost her father is okay, not having a father is not okay? That's normalizing people being bullied for being humans. It's normalizing not allowing a widow to find another lover who at least may have an actual "bigger brother" style connection to her children than some actor who has none.

We don't need "figures" and "role models" for what they seem like, like pixels on a screen. That need comes from being someone, at least the natural initial desire to become someone, and it aims at people who are someone, too.

> Ethics is not black and white.

Except of course for the father figure she "obviously" needs, and how the confidence has "improved" (implied: from not good enough to good enough), during that "critical" part of the development as if there were any non-critical ones in life.

> O righteous crusaders for truth, if this girl was put in front of you, would you tell her?

That's not the question. The question is, would you fake being her father, or would you hire a fake father, and the answer to both of that for me is no, I can bet you my life on that, in writing. Oh righteous crusader for deep considerations, can you at least not turn faking being a father into the burden of "telling the truth" in a situation we would not have incurred in the first place?

When something makes you sad, there is usually good reason for it. Why not simply give her drugs to make her happy, and money to make it not matter if she has a career? If truthfulness, who you actually are, is just this thing on the side trumped by "outcome", why arbitrarily stop there? Why not permanently install on VR helmets and drug pumps onto everybody right after birth, done?

What would people who don't mind something like this have to withstand something even more twisted? How about this is already 20 iterations past sane, how about no? How about having a decent society instead of a rising tide of shut-ins and suicide and elderly people with plastic robot dogs? If you can't see those elephants on the couch, how can you be all life coach about this maybe not being the sad, nutty thing it is on the surface because it's possible that in 20 years it might have turned out well? Start everything like you want it to end. If you can't handle even someone else's mortality, how about your own? When I worked in a hospital, I was constantly amazed at the idle chit chat relatives made with people who had very short time left. I felt like those of the stuff who made human connections were the only ones remotely realizing what was going on. The visitors just dipped in, coated in a shell of activity, and left before anything could sink in. And I believe many genuinely loved those they visited, for some they were the apple of their eye; they were just so inept at life that they wasted those last moments together, too. In short, just to repeat, no. No to all of it. No to that entire branch.

edit: while I don't like to add even more to such a long rant (please don't take it personal in the accusative sense because I mirrored your "oh.." phrasing, take it as personal as meaning a lot to me), another thought occurred to me that actually does make me a bit angry: he's not "giving" her a fake father, he's taking her real and unfortunately dead father away from her. In the sense of role models and emotional support a LOT of things and people can do -- in the sense of the person you are and who your parents are, there are no substitutes. This is unforgivable to me; not that it's my call in this case, but if I was that girl, and I found out one day, that guy would have to fear for his life. How is it even possible that it's legal for him to not own up when she turns 18? Just because the lie started when she wasn't an adult? There is not one single aspect of this that isn't utterly fucked up to me. No, it's not understandable. It's understandable as in you needed to clean the dishes and now there is a 100 m tall sea monster destroying the whole block.

Re:The Booming Japanese Rent-A-Friend Business by logfromblammo on Thursday November 09, 2017 @04:16PM (#15665931)
Being a real parent is essentially pretending to be a good parent most of the time, because you have no idea what you're doing. This guy just does the same thing in four hour chunks for $200 a pop, while the real thing doesn't get a wage or keep fixed business hours.

Having acted as the perfect boyfriend, husband, and father, in bite-sized chunks, even while exhausted, subject of the article is in an ideal position to take on the real thing. The only difference is that the actors get to stop playing their roles when the scene is over, while the real people have to keep their masks on forever.

As screwed up as it may sound, this guy is actually removing one of the layers of mutually-reinforced illusion from Japanese society, by openly admitting that the other person in an interaction is playing a predefined role in exchange for valuable consideration. It's like that old cynical description of an older profession: you're not paying for that, you're paying for them to leave afterward. You're substituting cash for the emotional investment you would otherwise have to put in as your half of the exchange. It's brutally mercenary, but some people are happy enough with the illusion. Why else would novels and teleplays be so popular? If my entire life is a lie anyway, why not pay a little extra to make it a good one?

This article is one of the reasons why I think Japan will be the first to industrialize companionship AI, and thereby blow huge, gaping, unrepairable holes through their own culture within the span of a single generation. Some forward-thinking researcher had better install a secret matchmaking protocol into the model before version one ships, or we're all doomed.

Re:The Booming Japanese Rent-A-Friend Business by belorn on Thursday November 09, 2017 @09:21AM (#15662560)
> How about having a decent society

Everyone wants this. An end to bullying would be great. Social expectations, roles, and conformity is harmful when it leads to groups ganging up on individuals.

And it doesn't end in school. I have personally had job interview in which the lack of popular social activity outside schools hours resulted in me not getting the job. Every time I see a studying looking at appearance and conformity to social expectations and norms I see a global phenomenon where society rewards conformity and punish non-conformity. Faking conformity is not a solution, but I can't say there has been much progress in removing the underlying issue. From my view there was progress until about mid 1970, in which the trend reversed and now we have a polarized world in which you either must conform to a naturalist or purist view (The Chromium Fence).

> When I worked in a hospital, I was constantly amazed at the idle chit chat relatives made with people who had very short time left.

Measure the stress levels and I think you would get a interesting correlation. There were a study done on parents to cancer sick children, and there were some direct correlation between behavior and stress management. In short summery to what I recall, suppressing the idea that the child was sick gave short-term stress reduction but that had a major price to pay when reality crashed in. Those that accepted reality early and gave themselves some room to exercise control (like making sure someone was in the room, that the nurses read the right bed-night story, and so on) generally faired better in the long run. It is not a fun study, but it is a good explanation for human behavior.

Re:The Booming Japanese Rent-A-Friend Business by nemothekid on Thursday November 09, 2017 @02:24PM (#15665099)
You are dissatisfied at the situations - we all are. We all understand that society is getting more isolated. However you deflected the question "righteous crusaders for truth, if this girl was put in front of you, would you tell her?" with a completely unrelated question.

Society has never been perfect, and it's a very tall order to say that an individual had the agency to build one where this situation would not have incurred in the first place. A single man cannot undo decades of societal decay.

In this situation, you have the agency of one person, to (try) improve the life of another's. If you were the widow, how long do you think you would have to search and deal with various male figures before you finally found the right guy? If you were Yuichi, do you take up this case and try to live honestly with the daughter forever and abandon your old life? Or you can, as you seem to be arguing, do nothing and hopefully the daughter deals with bullying. Those are your options. It isn't fair to the daughter to say "these people who tried to help you are wrong, what they should have done is solve Japan's suicide problem."

Re:The Booming Japanese Rent-A-Friend Business by musage on Friday November 10, 2017 @09:17AM (#15669982)
> A single man cannot undo decades of societal decay.

Rosa Parks didn't put the powder in the keg, and she didn't want to light no fuse. She was just sick and tired of something she considered wrong and demeaning for herself.

So yes, if it helps, I would probably want to tell that girl. It's dumb to "give an answer" to such a hypothetical. If you were Trump's old school buddy, would you still go jogging with him? Anyway, you know how they say to ignore bullies, and hiring a fake father is going so far in the opposite direction (apart from the totally fucked up priorities in the first place IMO, your actual identity > discomfort that prompts you to grow). And it's not "unfair" to expect people to not make things worse.

Re:The Booming Japanese Rent-A-Friend Business by circlefavshape on Friday November 10, 2017 @05:14AM (#15668982)
> When I worked in a hospital, I was constantly amazed at the idle chit chat relatives made with people who had very short time left.

Last week, for the first time in my life, someone I care about died. There was lots of "idle chit-chat" as we sat around him (in a coma) in the hospital for 2 weeks, waiting for the end. IMO the content of our conversation didn't really count for much, it was being there for each other that mattered. Words are not the only way you can express deep emotions

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Re:The Booming Japanese Rent-A-Friend Business by icebraining on Thursday November 09, 2017 @02:25PM (#15665114)
I don't disagree that this is dishonest behavior, as a son I'd prefer the bullying to discovering this. That said, your cavalier attitude about how she should just "find a real father" is not appropriate either. If she was battered, as the answer implies, it's completely expectable that she has trust issues with starting any new relationship, let alone bringing someone into her daughter's life.

Japan may be full of single men, and I'm sure many are wonderful people, but she already failed once in her judgment, so how can she trust herself not do to it again? Is it laziness to avoid swimming after you've almost drowned before?

Plus, you're actually reinforcing her position, by treating "a father" as something you just go out and get, like a car. What if she simply doesn't want to be intimate with anyone? How many single men are prepared to be a father without being a husband?

What you're essentially saying is that you agree that she should hire a father for her daughter, only that she should pay with her body instead of her money.

Re:The Booming Japanese Rent-A-Friend Business by Veratyr on Thursday November 09, 2017 @01:36PM (#15664677)
> Her mother is a lazy, dishonest bitch who bought a fake father rather than finding a real one for her daughter. Japan is full of single men so it's not like that option wasn't available to her.

I think that's harsh and short sighted. Why is marrying a single man better for her daughter? How is that more "real"? It's certainly not true in all cases. If her mother remarried to an abusive alcoholic do you seriously think that's better than hiring what's essentially a professional father?

Re:The Booming Japanese Rent-A-Friend Business by underwoodley on Friday November 10, 2017 @05:18AM (#15668993)
It is more real because she believes that the father spends time with her each week because he loves her and wants to look after her.

In every social interaction we can never really be certain of the other person's motivations or feelings about us, or even if they really have feelings as opposed to being an automaton or a hallucination. In many cases it doesn't really matter that much. When a waiter smiles and laughs with us, they might just be thinking about their tip and how much their shoes hurt, but we can still enjoy their company.

Parenthood, romantic love, close friendship are not like this. They rely on a deep level of trust. If you pretended to be my lover, it wouldn't be enough to say "well you couldn't tell and you enjoyed it". There is an implicit shared emotional connection.

In particular, children need to be able to trust their parents.

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Re:The Booming Japanese Rent-A-Friend Business by Veratyr on Thursday November 09, 2017 @04:35PM (#15666042)
Really? Do you think that an adopted child would prefer their birth parents over their loving adoptive parents if their birth parents were abusive alcoholics, criminals or drug addicts?

Children who have been adopted are also "tricked" but I don't think all of them prefer their birth families.

Re:The Booming Japanese Rent-A-Friend Business by bjourne on Friday November 10, 2017 @08:45AM (#15669808)
You are responding to something I didn't write: "over being tricked like this." Adopted children aren't being tricked as they almost always know that they are adopted.
Re:The Booming Japanese Rent-A-Friend Business by logfromblammo on Thursday November 09, 2017 @04:20PM (#15665959)
Some people prefer the gate of ivory to the gate of horn. It is not my place to choose for them.
Re:The Booming Japanese Rent-A-Friend Business by ugfgibcvg on Thursday November 09, 2017 @01:35PM (#15664669)
I don’t understand why this is being downvoted.
Re:The Booming Japanese Rent-A-Friend Business by danudey on Thursday November 09, 2017 @02:23PM (#15665096)
Because the problem isn't that the woman doesn't have a husband, the problem is that society is shitty to kids who don't have a father. That's the problem the woman is solving.

The comment above is implying that the woman is "a lazy, dishonest bitch" for not going and finding a boyfriend or husband so that the girl won't be bullied at school, which is a pretty clueless thing to say. The idea that a family needs a father in order to have any worth or be treated with any respect is the cause of the problem in the first place, and this comment is just reinforcing that ignorant and incorrect position.

In other words, the reason the woman needs to hire someone in the first place to keep her daughter safe is because of people like the person who posted that comment.

Re:The Booming Japanese Rent-A-Friend Business by Veratyr on Thursday November 09, 2017 @01:39PM (#15664701)
Personally, it's the "Her mother is a lazy, dishonest bitch who bought a fake father rather than finding a real one for her daughter." part of the comment. It's very strong language that I don't think is deserved and it makes it sound like finding a new father would be easy.

There's a well documented reason why there are a lot of single men in Japan.

Re:The Booming Japanese Rent-A-Friend Business by echion on Thursday November 09, 2017 @02:15PM (#15665023)
> There's a well documented reason why there are a lot of single men in Japan.

What is that reason? (Serious question)

Re:The Booming Japanese Rent-A-Friend Business by Veratyr on Thursday November 09, 2017 @03:26PM (#15665602)
Young people in Japan aren't interested in relationships: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/20/young-people-j...

The reasons behind _that_ aren't so well understood but generally seem to be disillusionment with the idea of falling in love, getting married and having a family, unwillingness to fit in with traditional expectations (housewife taking care of the kids + hard working salaryman husband) or simply seeing relationships as too hard.

Re:The Booming Japanese Rent-A-Friend Business by bjourne on Friday November 10, 2017 @08:49AM (#15669826)
Western men are deeply conditioned to feel sorry for women in all circumstances. Even when that sorry-feeling is not warranted. They would have no problem understanding that a man doing the same thing to a child is a dickhead, but a women doing it, is a victim of bad circumstances.