Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S to catch up on Model 3

Re:Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S t... by semi-extrinsic on Thursday November 02, 2017 @03:52AM (#15608587)

That E-class production line video is interesting, it's basically the same assembly strategy Tesla uses: all bits of the engine, drivetrain, suspension etc. is assembled into a "skateboard" in one line, while the body gets fitted with all the trim, interior, doors etc. on another line and then dropped onto the skateboard (which you see from 6:30 and out in the video).

If Tesla is stuck on a battery bottleneck it's just as silly as if Mercedes were stuck on a sheet metal bottleneck. Yes, you need reliable component suppliers that can scale with you as you grow and provide the quality you need. If you don't have that, you have a big problem that vertical integration isn't going to solve.

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Re:Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S t... by Animats on Thursday November 02, 2017 @02:44PM (#15613111)

That E-class production line video is interesting, it's basically the same assembly strategy Tesla uses: all bits of the engine, drivetrain, suspension etc. is assembled into a "skateboard" in one line, while the body gets fitted with all the trim, interior, doors etc. on another line and then dropped onto the skateboard

The Mercedes E-class is monocoque, like almost all cars. They build the body/frame and then add the powertrain and wheels. Here's the body/frame and the powertrain/suspension coming together.[1] The powertrain and suspension aren't self-supporting; they're a collection of parts held in a fixture. That's very clear in the video of the parts coming together.

The Tesla Model S, though, is body on frame. If it can sit on its wheels without a body, as the Tesla Model S can, it's body-on-frame. Here's the Tesla Model S platform sitting on its wheels, with the powertrain installed.[2]

So is the Tesla Model 3.[3]

[1] https://youtu.be/lPKnM9vC6V0?t=395 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8WUIkD7xxI [3] https://jalopnik.com/why-tesla-needs-to-sell-the-model-3-wit...

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Re:Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S t... by FussyZeus on Thursday November 02, 2017 @08:54AM (#15609933)

Well that's what the redesign is meant to fix, no? Supplier can't keep pace so they're either building it in-house or they've designed something that can be supplied easier/by another vendor.

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Re:Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S t... by jodrellblank on Thursday November 02, 2017 @04:12AM (#15608653)

Relevant Jean-Louis Gassée commentary - https://mondaynote.com/teslas-new-car-smell-315c72c955d3 - referencing BMW Spartanburg's 1500 car per day output, and discussing Tesla's factory.

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Re:Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S t... by Aron on Thursday November 02, 2017 @02:54AM (#15608364)

They aren't stopping at 500\week. They are admitting it's broken.

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Re:Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S t... by Fizzer on Thursday November 02, 2017 @01:48AM (#15608120)

Most auto production lines don't need EV-size batteries. The post above specifically says batteries are the bottleneck, so it isn't really evidence that something is "terribly wrong"

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Re:Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S t... by coldtea on Thursday November 02, 2017 @07:40AM (#15609451)

Since batteries are the whole selling point of a Tesla, I'd say it remains evidence that something is "terribly wrong".

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Re:Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S t... by nradov on Thursday November 02, 2017 @10:06AM (#15610467)

Based on second hand information from people working with tier-1 Tesla suppliers, it seems that Tesla demanded they set up the Model 3 production in about half the time as other manufacturers. The suppliers knew that the promised dates and production volumes were a total joke but went along anyway just to get the business. The Tesla reality distortion field only goes so far; it doesn't help accelerate the creation of big, complex physical objects like dies and molds.

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Re:Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S t... by Munkum on Thursday November 02, 2017 @01:16PM (#15612290)

Apparently the suppliers told Tesla that the dates were impossible, but Tesla management didn't want to hear that and continued to pass on nothing but good news up the chain. It wouldn't surprise me if Elon only recently learned just how bad it is all going.

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Re:Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S t... by api on Thursday November 02, 2017 @01:50AM (#15608132)

It's almost like Mercedes has been doing this for a long time.

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Re:Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S t... by coldtea on Thursday November 02, 2017 @07:41AM (#15609455)

That's a moot point though.

If you want to compete in a market, you got to play at the speed/quality/prices of the market -- there is no slack given for being new.

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Re:Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S t... by gjem97 on Thursday November 02, 2017 @09:09AM (#15610040)

Seems like there's a lot of slack given for being new. They have had relative ease raising capital, their market cap is still enormous relative to the number of cars produced, and lots of people are still on the waiting list for a car that they won't get for years.

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Re:Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S t... by coldtea on Thursday November 02, 2017 @10:54AM (#15610921)

That's just money burned from people investing -- there's no slack from the market, and none of this does much good if you can't compete on the market.

In the end, unless they get profitable, if they burn their stash, they're toast.

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Re:Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S t... by Retric on Thursday November 02, 2017 @09:04AM (#15610001)

Tesla's profit margins are fine, this is all a question of ramping up to cover demand. Which tends to be much simpler when you are already a huge company.

Their real risk is if the Model 3's reliability is bad or they need a recall thus reducing their profits significantly.

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Re:Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S t... by Animats on Thursday November 02, 2017 @07:34PM (#15615354)

What they've been ramping up is the Model 3's price point.

"The truth is the Model 3 costs $40,000 if you want a standard version with autopilot (an extra $5,000) in black with no other options. If you want a different color, add $1,000. And if you want a longer range ($9,000) to get over 300 miles per charge instead of 220, well now we’re at $50,000. $50,000 for a midrange car."[1]

[1] https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/31/16069960/tesla-model-3-no...

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Re:Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S t... by Retric on Thursday November 02, 2017 @09:07PM (#15615933)

Autopilot is not a standard mid range car feature.

"Enhanced Autopilot adds these new capabilities to the Tesla Autopilot driving experience. Your Tesla will match speed to traffic conditions, keep within a lane, automatically change lanes without requiring driver input, transition from one freeway to another, exit the freeway when your destination is near, self-park when near a parking spot and be summoned to and from your garage."

You can get adaptive cruse control for more reasonable costs, but lane changing takes a lot more awareness around the car.

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