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Re:Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance by artimaeis on Wednesday November 01, 2017 @12:26PM (#15602826)
I see what you're getting at but that decision has little/nothing to do with Apple's stance on privacy.

* iMessage still uses end-to-end encryption for messages in China.

* iPhones sold in China still utilize Secure Enclave for privacy/encryption.

* Aggregate data still uses differential privacy in China.

The government made a request of them which did not compromise their user's security, and they obliged.

Compare that to when the US government requested backdoor access pass Secure Enclave and they absolutely denied that request.

I agree that it's unfortunate for Chinese users that their government is placing additional limits on the available software in that ecosystem (as well as other ecosystems, I'm sure). But so long as the government is not asking Apple to compromise its users privacy I don't see any strong relation to corroborate the idea: "privacy matters, unless it's in your fastest-growing market".

Re:Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance by ewzimm on Wednesday November 01, 2017 @01:04PM (#15603277)
This also shows that if we care about the preservation of privacy, we can't depend on technology to solve the problem on its own. No matter how well-engineered software might be, it's ultimately subordiate to national and international law. A company can refuse to cooperate up to a point, but a government can always force it to either comply or cease doing business.

The Verge's recent technology survey showed that at least its audience believes that Google and Amazon are better protectors of personal privacy than Apple, so their strong stance on encryption and privacy is not yet completely effective in differentiating them from competitors. Hopefully articles like this will enhance the perceived value of privacy, because we need both private and public entities to agree on privacy for it to be effective.

Re:Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance by njarboe on Wednesday November 01, 2017 @03:09PM (#15604521)
"it's ultimately subordiate to national and international law"

That is true, but in the US a big problem is that part of the government is breaking the law with its surveillance. In that situation technology can help quite a bit. The constitution states that the government needs a warrant to search ones private papers. Encryption works great against illegal government snooping. When the intelligence agencies and Congress starts talking about requiring back doors, like the Clipper Chip or the Apple request, society can hear about it and push to keep the back doors out. Worked with the Clipper Chip at least.

Re:Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance by s3r3nity on Wednesday November 01, 2017 @03:12PM (#15604543)
Yeah I tend to agree with you - if Tim Cook refused China's request and subsequently got all iPhone sales banned in China, the stock would tank and there would be chaos / folks calling for Tim to resign, etc etc.
Re:Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance by CodeWriter23 on Wednesday November 01, 2017 @01:43PM (#15603657)
Perhaps The Verge would like to re-run it’s survey now, after yesterday’s rash of users being banned from Google Docs that we’re shared with them.
Re:Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance by AndrewKemendo on Wednesday November 01, 2017 @04:11PM (#15605031)
No matter how well-engineered software might be, it's ultimately subordiate to national and international law.

For now. I argue that there will be a technology corporation more powerful than the reach of any nation-state within 50 years.

Re:Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance by ewzimm on Wednesday November 01, 2017 @05:11PM (#15605514)
I agree with you. I'd even bet that in 10-20 years, the primary purpose of nation-states will be technology management, if that isn't already the case. Administration by software seems inevitable, with the main problem being ensuring that the software is acting in our interests. We'll likely encode policies into something like Ethereum contracts once we have more reliable infrastructure.
Re:Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance by jernfrost on Thursday November 02, 2017 @03:44AM (#15608555)
Ethereum does not have that broad of an application. You are engaging in rather wishful thinking. Nation states exist because people have different traditions, values, language, history, economic and political systems.
Re:Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance by ewzimm on Thursday November 02, 2017 @08:49AM (#15609885)
Yes, there are important differences, and I don’t think Ethereum will fill the various needs, which is why I said “something like Ethereum.” With all the differences in nation-states, we have come to a kind of equilibrium today where each one has a convertable fiat currency through historical convergence. Each one has a similar hierarchical government claming authority through popular mandate. That’s an amazing consistency considering the different origins.

I’m not wishing for any particular outcome, but considering past convergences and future potential, I’m simply saying it’s likely that some kind of smart contracts operating on distributed computing platforms will eventually become standard processes for law enforcement once computation is more ubiquitous.

Re:Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance by sigmar on Wednesday November 01, 2017 @12:45PM (#15603077)
>* iMessage still uses end-to-end encryption for messages in China.

Do you think Apple would refuse to swap out the public keys if ordered to by the government? Have you ever wondered why iMessage doesn't allow out-of-band key verification?

Re:Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance by cmsimike on Wednesday November 01, 2017 @12:51PM (#15603141)
This is my fear. Apple nicely shows all devices on my account, but how do I trust there aren't some invisible NSA devices on my account that also get all my iMessages?
Re:Forget iPhone X–Apple's Best Product Is Its Privacy Stance by exitreturn123 on Wednesday November 01, 2017 @03:51PM (#15604863)
You make a/the compelling counter-argument.

I still think there is a market driver (China TAM) that motivates the behavior as much as anything here. I guess we'll see if the slope is slippery or not.