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Re:Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloade... by there on Wednesday July 28, 2010 @10:27PM (#1556401)
so what were the security permissions requested by this app at the time of installation? i have to imagine that if it was taking web browsing history that it would have needed more permissions than just "uses network data".

android's fine-grained security permissions, where the author has to explicitly request each type (network use, prevent the screen from turning off, etc.) and the user is shown the list of permissions requested before installing, is good from a security standpoint, but i think it's ended up being like windows vista. users either don't read, don't care, or don't understand what is being asked of them and they just click whatever is needed to continue. even an advanced user can't tell the difference between a free app requesting network access to download advertisements and a malicious one using it to upload private information.

Re:Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloade... by orangecat on Wednesday July 28, 2010 @11:17PM (#1556511)
users either don't read, don't care, or don't understand what is being asked of them and they just click whatever is needed to continue.

True. That's sort of ok as long as advanced users can tell when something fishy is going on and flag the app.

even an advanced user can't tell the difference between a free app requesting network access to download advertisements and a malicious one using it to upload private information.

Also true. The Internet and SD card permissions are all-or-nothing, and therefore essentially useless. Apps should be able to declare that they only contact specific hosts or access specific directories, and there should be a standardized directory for per-app storage, like "Application Support" on OS X.

Re:Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloade... by flatulent1 on Thursday July 29, 2010 @01:13PM (#1558270)
It's really not even safe to have an app without strong credentials and audit trail bringing in ads. There's no protection against objectionable ads, or those doing things like taking advantage of Flash vulnerabilities etc.

Isn't the Apple approach to host the ads themselves? While app developers still get data access, at least there's a healthy isolation between the client and the advertiser. Apple can certainly provide things like basic client stats and direct ads appropriately based on location.

The Windows anti-virus / anti-spyware model is too flawed to be trusted. It's like having a bouncer at the door of a party that keeps out offenders from previous parties. The default is to trust everything else, so every zero day attack can get through. Defaulting to not trusting things and only allowing what's known okay would be far more effective. If apps had to request all net connections through IPs stored at Apple/Google etc, the potential to direct to some hostile developer or botnet would be greatly reduced. Although the plans may be for video and other high bandwidth content streaming, that huge server city Apple is building could certainly host any static non-generic content apps need, and perhaps be a proxy for much of the rest (news sites etc). Google certainly has the infrastructure to do something similar. Granted Google is better set to do that on a global level.

Even advanced users can be tricked if granting access for something trivial opens the gates to something nasty. At least on a consumer device it makes sense to protect users from themselves. Limiting hosts and local directories is certainly prudent.

Re:Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloade... by jsz0 on Wednesday July 28, 2010 @10:50PM (#1556450)
It's a rarity to see any Android app that doesn't require half a dozen different permissions. I just installed the Google Maps update and it requires 9 including the ability to read my phone call logs (??)
Re:Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloade... by TeHCrAzY on Wednesday July 28, 2010 @11:13PM (#1556499)
The google apps are an outlier in my experience so far. They tend to ask for many indepth permissions. Most apps just want full network access (for ad's) and sometimes phone call state/sdcard access etc.
Re:Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloade... by there on Wednesday July 28, 2010 @11:06PM (#1556482)
maybe on-demand permission requests would be better for many of those things, like apple ios does when an app requests your location.

if i did something in google maps and it popped up a dialog asking for access to my call logs, i would certainly deny it, but i just did that update this morning and didn't even notice anything about it accessing my call logs.

Re:Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloade... by masklinn on Thursday July 29, 2010 @02:35AM (#1556808)
> maybe on-demand permission requests would be better for many of those things, like apple ios does when an app requests your location.

Wouldn't change much, 95% of users would still go WANNA USE APPLICATION, DISMISS MEAN BOX NOW

Re:Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloade... by elliottkember on Thursday July 29, 2010 @03:31AM (#1556892)
Cancel or allow?
Re:Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloade... by masklinn on Thursday July 29, 2010 @07:29AM (#1557232)
Cancel doesn't give them APPLICATION NOW, so it's just training them to reflex-click allow. It's a pavlovian reaction: Cancel -> no application; Allow -> application. If they launched the application, they probably want to see what's in it.
Re:Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloade... by shirtless_coder on Wednesday July 28, 2010 @11:07PM (#1556485)
And it DID request more than that. The thing is, that these wannabes like to paint themselves as "security experts", so they conceal facts and tell the story to the masses of non-techie users and scare them. Then, they sell a bogus security app.
Re:Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloade... by guelo on Thursday July 29, 2010 @12:56AM (#1556677)
If a wallpaper app requests access to your contacts and millions of users install it anyways that is a flaw in Android's security model. After a while you become conditioned to just hitting Install without even looking at the permissions being requested. Just because users are lazy or even stupid is not an excuse for leaving them vulnerable.
Re:Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloade... by zmmmmm on Thursday July 29, 2010 @01:43AM (#1556738)
I agree it's a flaw. I do think it is better than iOS but it is still a huge problem. It is one of simultaneously too much and too little granularity. If you provide too much granularity it overwhelms users, while if you provide too little it forces people to approve too wide a scope.

For example, the music app I just installed wants access to the phone state and identity. At first I baulked and said WTF does a music app need that for? And of course, the answer is it wants to make the music quieter / pause when a call comes in. But to do that it needs access to the identity of my phone because that seems to be lumped into the same bucket as the "state" of my phone. It also needs internet access because it wants to download album art. So these completely innocuous features also mean it could be tracking my location and reporting it to the web. How do I tell an evil app from a good one? I don't know - all I do is read the comments.

I think Android needs to make the model richer while also streamlining certain sets of permissions into standard profiles that people can understand. For example, the set of minimal permissions to support ads in an app should be simply presented as "to present location based ads", not a set of 5 permissions that overwhelm people. This should in turn be honed by Google into a minimal set of permissions internally so that an app that just wants to present ads can't actually track me and report my location to arbitrary web sites.

I hope Google is thinking about this stuff. I think it's in a reasonable state at the moment if it is just on a development curve. If this is how Google thinks it should stay then it is not enough and is going to become a serious problem.

Re:Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloade... by roc on Thursday July 29, 2010 @08:56AM (#1557392)
No, it's a problem in the model.

User testing has shown, over and over again, that users do not read pop-up boxes. Why would anyone expect security warnings would be any different than error messages? MS dialed down granularity from Vista to 7 and the UAC is still a joke.

What's needed is something different. I don't know what that thing is, but pop-up boxes are not it.

My pet theory atm is "services". When an app installs, it can register as knowing what to do with certain data. Say, GPS coordinates or contacts.

If a user wants their wallpaper to have access to that data, they'll open their GPS, or contacts app and explicitly allow the behavior.

That way, an app only has access to those data sources if the user explicitly sets out to grant it to them. If it's a conscious multi-step process, it should be pretty hard for people to accidentally grant a wallpaper access to all their personal data.

And given the competitiveness of mobile app stores, I doubt any app would survive that sits functionless and nagging until the user explicitly grants it a half-dozen permissions. So they'd quickly end up asking for less, or at least delivering as much as they can with as little as they're given.

I know "services" hardly goes all the way. But my point remains that no level of granularity will make the pop-up approach 'work'.

Re:Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloade... by shirtless_coder on Thursday July 29, 2010 @01:52PM (#1558449)
That is not a flaw in android's security model. That is a flaw in the user.

If a salesman approached your door and said "I will own your first born child, and your boat, if you sign this contract to get a 90% discount on a time share in Bermuda" and then several people agreed, just because they didn't listen to the first part of the sentence, who's fault is this? The salesman or the 'victim'? It's the victim's fault, because he DIDN'T LISTEN, and AGREED ANYWAY.

Any lawyer (or layman for that matter) will tell you that if someone signs a contract they DON'T READ that they're still required to uphold it.

When you are installing an application and it asks you to AGREE to the application doing X,Y,Z and you say 'OK' then YOU are responsible.

No Pavlovian behaviorist hogwash is going to convince me otherwise.

Re:Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloade... by maxjg on Wednesday July 28, 2010 @10:52PM (#1556453)
Just out of curiosity, when an android app is updated, how are permissions handled? Do you receive a prompt to allow new privileges, or does it assume you approve of it already?

You bring up an astute point on the vague "network access" permission, but there's really not an easy answer to this. How would you fix it? Ask the developer to simply say what the access will be used for? In an malicious app, they'd obviously just lie. Short of actually displaying what data an app is sending, I don't see an easy answer.

Re:Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloade... by eli on Wednesday July 28, 2010 @10:58PM (#1556466)
Yes, if an update requires new permissions, it must be explicitly approved again and cannot be auto-updated.
Re:Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloade... by papertiger on Wednesday July 28, 2010 @11:35PM (#1556547)
Maybe treating any ad network component as a "sub-app" with separate permissions would make it more obvious when a request for network access is unwarranted. As to how something like that might be implemented... I have no idea.

I suspect people would ignore it anyway.

Re:Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloade... by there on Wednesday July 28, 2010 @11:03PM (#1556475)
froyo (finally) has an automatic update feature, so most apps update on their own. i have noticed a few that say they require manual updating, but i didn't know if it was due to a download failure or if it was for a changed set of permissions. it does show you the full permission list again before updating manually.

How would you fix it? Ask the developer to simply say what the access will be used for? In an malicious app, they'd obviously just lie. Short of actually displaying what data an app is sending, I don't see an easy answer.

maybe show a list of domains it's allowed to resolve/contact? i guess that wouldn't make it any easier for most users to decipher though. i think a lot of free apps require network access just to download ads; maybe there is a better way (in the android api) of handling that to segment it away from full-blown network access?

maybe have a set of permissions common to each category? it's expected that a web browser app has access to do a lot of things, but if you have an app in a wallpaper category that requires those same set of permissions, it should be raising a red flag somewhere.

perhaps apple's app review process wasn't so crazy after all...

Re:Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloade... by cludwin on Thursday July 29, 2010 @01:26AM (#1556720)
Again since the article doesn't mention which app was malicious it's hard to say but when I looked up the wallpaper apps developed by "jackeey,wallpaper" I see the apps requiring the following permissions:

android.permission.ACCESS_COARSE_LOCATION

android.permission.ACCESS_NETWORK_STATE

android.permission.INTERNET

android.permission.READ_PHONE_STATE

android.permission.SET_WALLPAPER

android.permission.WRITE_EXTERNAL_STORAGE

It seems strange for a wallpaper app to require internet access.

Re:Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloade... by Zak on Thursday July 29, 2010 @07:43AM (#1557257)
A wallpaper app is likely to need the ability to download new wallpapers. I'm not sure why it would need your location though.
Re:Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloade... by tvon on Thursday July 29, 2010 @11:45AM (#1557944)
It wouldn't need it, but it could be used to find wallpapers relevant to your location (photos).
Re:Android wallpaper app that steals your data was downloade... by Tichy on Thursday July 29, 2010 @03:29AM (#1556890)
I must admit I didn't know that READ_PHONE_STATE includes browsing history. But I don't know what is the message shown to the user.

I have decided to not install apps that ask for too much several times.

Maybe another way to categorize the security rights is needed.