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Re:Obscurity Is a Valid Security Layer by tyingq on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @10:52AM (#15541981)
It's a valid additional security layer. If it's not displacing other things you should be doing, it probably adds value.

His example of moving ssh to a non-default port is compelling.

Re:Obscurity Is a Valid Security Layer by pgwhalen on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @10:57AM (#15542022)
Isn’t every security layer a valid “additional” security later?
Re:Obscurity Is a Valid Security Layer by gregmac on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @11:12AM (#15542143)
Sure. You just have to balance it against convenience, as well as consider effort vs value.

Changing the SSH port is fine, and having to remember/teach people that it's a non-standard port is pretty easy. Although it is security-by-obscurity, it's decent value because you're significantly less likely to get dictionary attacks. Fairly low value, but also very low effort.

Restricting SSH connections to specific source IPs further reduces your risk, but adds inconvenience: you have to be in a specific place or use a VPN first, or remember to add new IPs for new people that need to connect. If you have only your office white-listed, and something happens to your office, now what?

Using port knocking can provide even more security-by-obscurity, but is much more inconvenient to connect to, harder to train new people on, etc. I've not used this myself but I'd also be worried about possibility of it not working.

When you consider these in the context of effort vs value, I'm not sure they're really there. They definitely add some security value, but it's a pretty tiny amount compared to something like using key-based authentication. Arguably both are a bit more secure than just changing the SSH port, but that comes at a significantly higher effort.

Re:Obscurity Is a Valid Security Layer by adtac on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @10:59AM (#15542046)
Right, but what GP meant to say was that obscurity is not sufficient as the ONLY layer of security. There might be some techniques that are perfectly sufficient (for example, encrypting all the user data with a password and storing a hash+salt version of the password coule be argued to be sufficient), but obscurity is not.
Re:Obscurity Is a Valid Security Layer by tyingq on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @10:59AM (#15542045)
I meant "additional" more like "optional". Things you would do after doing the bare minimum. It shouldn't displace things that are of higher importance. Running a currently patched sshd, disabling password auth, etc, would be higher priority than running on a non-standard port.
Re:Obscurity Is a Valid Security Layer by empath75 on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @11:50AM (#15542479)
it's only compelling until people do it regularly.
Re:Obscurity Is a Valid Security Layer by beingmyself2 on Tuesday October 24, 2017 @11:38AM (#15542363)
But is it worth the extra effort? Something I've noticed many people ignore is the cost to standardization these kinds of "security" upgrades place. When training a junior/new/contract IT person all these little gotchas need to be mentioned and will slow down workflows regardless. Pile on enough of these tweaks and the infrastructure starts to become less manageable.