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Re:Just own the damn robots by pdog on Tuesday October 17, 2017 @03:51PM (#15494281)
Investors are willing to accept much lower long-term returns for safe haven assets.

If you're going to "just own the damn robots" at any price, you're essentially paying for this sort of insurance.

Re:Just own the damn robots by adventured on Tuesday October 17, 2017 @04:02PM (#15494376)
I agree investors will continue to own these companies in a very big way. They won't continue to maintain much less inflate the premium that presently exists.

Microsoft for example has barely grown its income in a decade. On what planet should they have a 28 pe ratio? The stock has tripled (!) in five years on the back of zero income growth. It's massive value destruction just waiting to happen. Shareholders will not just sit, hold and tolerate the inevitable value destruction that is looming, it doesn't work as insurance at all in such a context.

Re:Just own the damn robots by paulpauper on Tuesday October 17, 2017 @05:40PM (#15495226)
the problem with this argument is if you wait, you may leave money on the table in the form of:

missed dividends

the possibility that Microsoft grows its profits more

the possibility the stock keeps rising, and then even if it falls, it's still higher than the price you sold

The last reason is why timing the market is so hard. Had you sold the S&P 500 in early 1996 because it was 'too expensive', you would have never been able to buy back at a lower price, ever, even after the crash of 2000-2002 and 2008-2009, and you would have missed all the dividends.

Re:Just own the damn robots by frandroid on Tuesday October 17, 2017 @04:58PM (#15494875)
You forget that Microsoft's stock stagnated for 10 years before that. A 28 PE ratio is the new normal for tech companies. With Ballmer out of the picture, investors are speculating on a brighter future for MS. It's not here yet but they're making lots of smart moves.
Re:Just own the damn robots by adventured on Wednesday October 18, 2017 @05:39AM (#15497902)
> A 28 PE ratio is the new normal for tech companies.

It's not the new normal. That's what people say to justify extreme premiums during times in which investors have overly inflated valuations. This is the third bubbly tech era in the last 20 years. That new normal premise has been used frequently in each.

I understand why Microsoft has inflated. It doesn't jive with actual results in the post Ballmer era. There isn't even a hint of the kind of growth that could justify such an elevated PE ratio (elevated for a company with no growth for years). Their fast growth areas are struggling to off-set what they're losing in eroding, old business franchises. Net result, they're standing still.

Re:Just own the damn robots by sunpar on Tuesday October 17, 2017 @09:28PM (#15496260)
Microsoft has to defer reporting revenue on sales of Windows 10. From their recent investor letter:

"We delivered $90.0 billion in revenue and $22.3 billion in operating income this past fiscal year. Adjusting for Windows 10 revenue deferrals and restructuring expenses, revenue was $96.7 billion with $29.3 billion in operating income."

That is 31% more revenue and 34% more operating income compared to 2012 (the 5 year time period you're citing). Stock backs will also move the price -- there's almost a billion fewer shares outstanding now than there were 5 years ago.

Of course, investors buy companies for future performance and not for past performance. I would suggest that investors like MSFT's current strategy and management considerably more than their past, and as the management continues to increase profits, investors gain more confidence.

Re:Just own the damn robots by paulpauper on Tuesday October 17, 2017 @05:06PM (#15494946)
but Facebook, Google, Amazon, and Microsoft are software, not hardware, so you're not owning the robots.
Re:Just own the damn robots by milcron on Tuesday October 17, 2017 @05:16PM (#15495030)
In this sort of context I feel like "robots" is a euphemism for "automation". Software has the lowest marginal cost out of all forms of automation.

Consider robo-advisors [0], automated financial advisors written in software.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robo-advisor

Re:Just own the damn robots by jameshart on Tuesday October 17, 2017 @05:15PM (#15495022)
The robots are not literally robots in this story. Trading algorithms are robots. Uber's ability to connect riders and drivers is a robot.

That said, Amazon and google are in the robot hardware business literally, too.

Re:Just own the damn robots by robotresearcher on Tuesday October 17, 2017 @07:47PM (#15495905)
Amazon is, but their customer is themselves. They use 50,000 robots today and that will grow fast.

Google doesn't sell robots. I don't know if they use them, apart from a few for research.

Re:Just own the damn robots by ThomPete on Tuesday October 17, 2017 @10:14PM (#15496401)
Their web spider is a robot. We are far past the time when humans could catalog that much change.
Re:Just own the damn robots by TrickyRick on Wednesday October 18, 2017 @04:51AM (#15497735)
A self driving car is a robot, they will be selling that in a near future if Google themselves are to be believed.
Re:Just own the damn robots by robotresearcher on Wednesday October 18, 2017 @11:00AM (#15499659)
Oops yes of course. I stupidly forgot about them. They spun them out from the Google brand and also my brain.
Re:Just own the damn robots by hkmurakami on Tuesday October 17, 2017 @06:42PM (#15495583)
fwiw Amazon owns and invests in warehouse automation robots.
Re:Just own the damn robots by gehwartzen on Tuesday October 17, 2017 @11:28PM (#15496686)
To truly own the 'robot' you have to own all of its components; the hardware and the software.
Re:Just own the damn robots by ThomPete on Tuesday October 17, 2017 @09:48PM (#15496330)
Robots isn't the right word. Automation is the right word.