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Re:There's No Fire Alarm for Artificial General Intelligence by YeGoblynQueenne on Saturday October 14, 2017 @08:11PM (#15475067)
I don't get this article. It keeps making the point that it's very hard to predict the future, even for specialists, then it uses this to argue that we should be preparing for AGI right now, precisely because we don't know if and when it will happen.

Well, if you have no way to tell whether something is going to happen, or not, you don't prepare for it- because you can't justify spending the resources to prepare. Or rather, in a world of limited resources, you can't prepare for every single event that may or may not happen, no matter how important.

To put it plainly: you don't take your umbrella with you because you don't know whether it will rain or not. You take it because you think it might. Otherwise, everyone would be going around with umbrellas all the time, just because it's impossible to make a completely accurate prediction about the weather and you don't know for sure when it will start raining until the first drops fall.

In the same sense, if there's no way to tell when, or if, AGI will arrive, then it doesn't make any sense to start preparing for it right now. We might as well prepare for an alien invasion. Or for grey goo, or a vacuum metastability event (er, not that you can prepare for the latter...).

In fact, if AGI is going to happen and we can't predict it in time then there's no point in even trying to prepare for it. Either we decide that the risk is too great and stop all AI research right now, or accept the risk and go on as we are.

Re:There's No Fire Alarm for Artificial General Intelligence by jarsta on Saturday October 14, 2017 @08:34PM (#15475134)
I don't think your analogies are that good. Do you have a fire detector? If yes, are you expecting your house to burn down?

You have to weigh the cost and the risk. Here the risk, how unlikely it might be, should warrant some extra preparation.

Re:There's No Fire Alarm for Artificial General Intelligence by YeGoblynQueenne on Saturday October 14, 2017 @08:48PM (#15475195)
Let's talk about the risks then. The fire detector is not a good example because where I live, they're mandatory (and completely useless- they go off when I boil spaghetti).

Let's instead look at the risks of boarding a plane. There's a very small chance that when you board a flight, instead of a plane that will fly you to your destination safe and sound, you're boarding a Flying Death Trap that will crash and burn, taking everybody onboard it to their deaths.

The chances of boarding an FDT is very small, infinitisemal. The cost however may as well be infinite- if you are killed, it's game over, no more rewards, no way to recoup the cost.

What is the rational behaviour then? To not board your flight, because if you do board an FDT you will certainly die and pay an infinite cost? Most people -if they consider the question at all- seem to think that if the chance of paying X cost is really small, it doesn't matter how large X is.

So people keep boarding their flights, not knowing until the last moment whether they're on a plane or an FDT. Some do indeed board FDTs and die in aviation accidents- rarely, but they do.

The article however says that they shouldn't. Since there is maximal uncertainty at the point where a flight is boarded (you can't know whether it's a plane or an FDT until the very last moment) you shouldn't be boarding. You shouldn't fly. At all. Because there's a tiny chance you might die.

Is that a better analogy?

Re:There's No Fire Alarm for Artificial General Intelligence by sullyj3 on Sunday October 15, 2017 @02:27AM (#15476149)
I don't think the point of the article is to make a complete argument for acting now, but rather to counter a particular objection to acting now. MIRI has a fair amount of writing, which I would say in totality constitutes an argument for beginning work on AI safety ASAP. I don't think it's fair to expect them to reiterate the entire thing in every article they put out. That's what their FAQ is for.
Re:There's No Fire Alarm for Artificial General Intelligence by YeGoblynQueenne on Monday October 16, 2017 @11:50AM (#15484067)
Equally, I don't think it's fair that I should be expected to read "a fair amount of writing" before I can read this article which, itself, is a fair amount of writing. I can see that the author has some prior history with specific counters to his line of reasonsing, but i don't think I should need to go over the entire history before I can understand what he's talking about (and I do need to do that, then that's a problem of his text, not my reading; I'm reading an article on the web, after all, not a scientific publicaiton with references).

And I'm pretty sure I do understand what he's talking about. He's saying that the coming of AGI is entirely uncertain so we should act now. That's unreasonable in and of itself, and I don't need to go back and read all the history he's got with others to be able to tell that.

Opinion, anyway.

Edit: To reiterate why it's unreasonable- if we won't see AGI until it's already here, what, exactly, are we supposed to be preparing against? We won't know it even when we see it- so how will we know what to protect ourselves from?

Reasoning with uncertainty requires at least some amount of knowledge and the article goes to great lengths to point out there isn't any, in the case of AGI.

So there's no reasoning to be done, either. In that case, what are we talking about? "Beware of the unknown"? Well, OK. I don't know if the sky will fall on my head tomorrow so maybe I should stay home, just in case?