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Re:The real roots of early city states may rip up the textbooks by nostrademons on Saturday October 14, 2017 @03:05PM (#15473660)
Similarly, the pastoralist agriculture way of life wasn't sustainable, and it fell to mass-production capitalism in the 30s and 40s. The Green Revolution could be viewed as the final death knell of that societal organization: now, small family farms worked by hand labor are virtually extinct, and all of the seeds are owned by Monsanto, which charges monopoly prices for a single harvest with no possibility of using the seeds from that harvest for the next (they've been genetically engineered to be sterile), and they require large fossil-fuel fertilizer inputs to grow anyway.

And it's likely that mass-production capitalism is beginning to die as well, killed by robotics, computers, the Internet, micro-manufacturing, and the Information Age. The key developments of that revolution are just in the labs right now, so it's a bit unclear what form the eventual civilization will take, but the writing's already on the wall.

Life has never been about sustainability. You could look at each phase of evolution - from protists to eukaryotes to vertebrates to land-dwellers to dinosaurs to mammals to humans to hunter-gatherers to agriculture to industrialization to information - as a phase-change in complexity levels, one which usually kills off the vast majority of diversity at the lower levels. In other words, life is a pyramid scheme, and death is a natural part of it. Death doesn't mean the absence of anything, it means the emergence of something new and unforeseen.

Re:The real roots of early city states may rip up the textbooks by maxerickson on Saturday October 14, 2017 @11:38PM (#15475754)
There's no terminator seeds in any active product lines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_use_restriction_techno...

Lots of commercial seed, GMO or not, is a hybrid that makes good fruit or vegetable and doesn't make great seed.

Re:The real roots of early city states may rip up the textbooks by visarga on Sunday October 15, 2017 @02:15AM (#15476126)
> In other words, life is a pyramid scheme, and death is a natural part of it. Death doesn't mean the absence of anything, it means the emergence of something new and unforeseen.

Interesting view about the link between life and death.

Re:The real roots of early city states may rip up the textbooks by pdfernhout on Tuesday October 17, 2017 @09:39AM (#15490763)
Yes, that is an interesting point about the cycle of life and death -- or "recycle" of matter and energy into new forms over time. The fossil record tends to show that -- life emerges into vast diversity and then gets reduced to a few very successful forms and stays that way until some disaster (asteroid, volcanoes, atmospheric change, etc.) and then eventually there is a new radiation of diverse life and then it reduces again...

One might see the same thing happening capitalism (as a stretch). There is a lot of diversity (like with early microcomputer manufacturers in the 1970s and 1980s) and then only a couple standard forms are left -- until the cycle repeats with laptops and then smartphones as conditions change (like cheaper small parts leading to discontinuities in what is possible). And before that, there was a lot of diversity too with early computers in the 1940s and 1950s until IBM dominated the computing landscape until the microcomputer came along.

With trees, there may be lots of seedlings out there getting mostly shaded out but essentially for a big tree to fall and open up a spot in the canopy where they can find lots of sunlight to grow into.

That said, the insight only holds -- for a reasonably short timescale -- as long as there is a vibrant ecosystem or culture surrounding the death to fill in the hole. Otherwise, it might be a long time before, say, the matter involved in a supernova becomes anything living again...

Although, as in a comment someone made on heavier matter created by neutron stars merging, the metal rings we were are a legacy of such events long ago. So, as I see it, I have a couple recycling bins. The ones for compost or bottles get recycled on a timescale of months or yeaar. By contrast, the trash can contents gets recyled on the order of tends of millions of years when the landfill eventually slides under a continental plate somewhere and down into the Earth's mantel to be melted down as magma and then become a mountain to become eroded or mined... Or, in a worst case, the landfill will eventually get absorbed by the Sun in a few billion years when it becomes a Red Giant. So, what bin I put something in when I discard it is a question of how quickly I want it to be recycled. :-)

(Frankly, we'll probably be mining our landfills soon enough with robotics and nanotech and biotech, but that is a different point... http://www.islandone.org/MMSG/aasm/AASM5E.html#5e )