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Re:Becoming a Steelworker Liberated Her, Then Her Job Moved ... by leereeves on Saturday October 14, 2017 @02:23PM (#15473447)
There's also this:

If every country has its own economy, there will be far more companies and jobs than if only a few multinational companies exist in the entire world.

Re:Becoming a Steelworker Liberated Her, Then Her Job Moved ... by closeparen on Saturday October 14, 2017 @04:11PM (#15473999)
Why country? Why not state, county, city, neighborhood, or block? If subdividing the economy creates good jobs, then we should do it as much as possible.

National protectionism has the same problems as state or city level import restrictions would, just at a different scale: you're throwing away comparative advantage, wasting time and capital duplicating others' work (so this time and capital is no longer available to unsolved problems), etc.

Re:Becoming a Steelworker Liberated Her, Then Her Job Moved ... by blfr on Saturday October 14, 2017 @05:23PM (#15474394)
National protectionism has the same problems as state or city level import restrictions would

No, it usually doesn't. There are benefits of scale but there are also diminishing returns.

Having, say, a steel mill in every town would be a huge waste but centralizing all steel production in one place on the globe would provide only a very minor, if any, benefit over doing it in fifty countries at the massive hidden cost of now world-wide fragility of steel supply. (This almost happened with hard drives.)

Re:Becoming a Steelworker Liberated Her, Then Her Job Moved ... by closeparen on Saturday October 14, 2017 @05:40PM (#15474478)
The world's countries have drastically different scale. If we are concerned with the point of diminishing returns on industrial economies of scale, aren't those the same everywhere? Shouldn't large countries be partitioning into several economic zones, while small countries unify, into groups of about the same size?
Re:Becoming a Steelworker Liberated Her, Then Her Job Moved ... by toyg on Saturday October 14, 2017 @05:30PM (#15474419)
> Why country? Why not state, county, city, neighborhood, or block?

You joke, but that's exactly what antitrust is about. When AT&T was broken up, dozens of flowers bloomed almost overnight. Unfortunately that was the also the apex of antitrust enforcement (certainly in the US and possibly worldwide).

In many ways, the ugly side of globalisation is often a failure to enforce real antitrust legislation: if a market has so few players that abandoning a location means losing a factory, then there should be space for antitrust action. You want a market so rabid that competitors would jump at the chance to take over an existing factory and already-skilled workforce.

Unfortunately it's also the sort of thing where nation-states rear their ugly heads, as they compete to establish their own champions. If I break my companies into smaller ones and you don't, your companies now have a powerful advantage when playing in my market, because they can exploit economies of scale that mine cannot. This has no solution unless we give more teeth to supranational bodies like the WTO, which nobody really wants to do, but it's probably the only way to save globalist capitalism from itself.

Re:Becoming a Steelworker Liberated Her, Then Her Job Moved ... by kabulykos on Saturday October 14, 2017 @05:20PM (#15474374)
Lesser divisions of government don't run militaries that might prefer autarky in the event of large conflict.
Re:Becoming a Steelworker Liberated Her, Then Her Job Moved ... by closeparen on Saturday October 14, 2017 @05:27PM (#15474404)
Which is a little ironic, given how much of the large global conflict in history has been fought over access to markets.

Independence in case of war is a good reason for governments to "overpay" domestic suppliers for defense contracts. It doesn't require them to isolate the general public from trade in peacetime.

Re:Becoming a Steelworker Liberated Her, Then Her Job Moved ... by chroem- on Saturday October 14, 2017 @05:12PM (#15474337)
>Why not state, county, city, neighborhood, or block?

Because nobody is arguing that. You're inventing an absurd position to argue against a pretty reasonable one.

>you're throwing away comparative advantage, wasting time and capital duplicating others' work (so this time and capital is no longer available to unsolved problems), etc.

Is this supposed to be a problem? Efficiency gains have simply gone into ballooning corporate cash stockpiles rather than demonstrably better purchasing power for consumers. Paradoxically, this is weakening the economy as more capital concentrates in fewer hands and consumer demand begins to falter.

Re:Becoming a Steelworker Liberated Her, Then Her Job Moved ... by closeparen on Saturday October 14, 2017 @05:16PM (#15474360)
> You're inventing an absurd position

Why is country less absurd than any other level of government?

Re:Becoming a Steelworker Liberated Her, Then Her Job Moved ... by bryananderson on Saturday October 14, 2017 @05:40PM (#15474471)
On top of that: not all countries are the same size. Why should Luxembourg be autarkic but Cleveland should not be? You're completely right that "country" is an arbitrary level to say "autarky is ok at this level."
Re:Becoming a Steelworker Liberated Her, Then Her Job Moved ... by chroem- on Saturday October 14, 2017 @05:26PM (#15474401)
Why do you think? National boundaries tend to be relatively homogeneous in terms of human development, which prevents corporations from engaging in labor arbitrage. Comparative advantage is beneficial in capital terms only, and harmful if it is used as a means to deny people basic human dignity in their working conditions. It enables for as wide of a market as possible without labor arbitrage.
Re:Becoming a Steelworker Liberated Her, Then Her Job Moved ... by closeparen on Saturday October 14, 2017 @05:35PM (#15474444)
The US is nowhere near homogeneous. At best, it's bimodal (coastal megacities vs. interior). There are labor arbitrage opportunities of more than 2x between i.e. Mississippi and DC [0]. Discussions about Silicon Valley's housing crisis routinely beg tech companies to engage in labor arbitrage by opening satellite offices or permitting remote workers in cheaper parts of the country.

The chasm between human development in a country's cities vs. its countryside is even wider around the world.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_income

Re:Becoming a Steelworker Liberated Her, Then Her Job Moved ... by chroem- on Saturday October 14, 2017 @05:46PM (#15474512)
>The US is nowhere near homogeneous.

Ah yes, that would be the definition of relatively.

Or are you implying that the difference in development between SF and Mobile, AL is bigger than the difference between the United States and Bangladesh? Because I would be highly suspect of that implication...

Re:Becoming a Steelworker Liberated Her, Then Her Job Moved ... by bryananderson on Saturday October 14, 2017 @02:28PM (#15473464)
This is just not true. Interconnection creates a far more dynamic economy. Look at any country that has tried to be economically self-sufficient. The siren of autarky is deadly to all her victims.
Re:Becoming a Steelworker Liberated Her, Then Her Job Moved ... by jordanb on Saturday October 14, 2017 @04:03PM (#15473951)
There's a false dichotomy between hyperglobalization and complete autarky.

Tariffs were common US policy when they served the interests of the elite. They only became ideologically unthinkable when they might have been used to protect the interests of the common people.

Trade deals could have been written to lift up working standards and environmental protections in foreign countries and to limit the effect on the American workforce. Instead they were written to facilitate wage, labor and environmental protection regulatory arbitrage and undermine the position of the American working class.

Re:Becoming a Steelworker Liberated Her, Then Her Job Moved ... by vfulco on Sunday October 15, 2017 @03:54AM (#15476297)
Nailed it. Americans are asked to swallow lower and lower opportunities for long term work potential (and continuing education) while being expected to continue spending cause its the patriotic thing to do. Only the C-suite and elite win. But we still haven't awakened from the nightmare.
Re:Becoming a Steelworker Liberated Her, Then Her Job Moved ... by bryananderson on Saturday October 14, 2017 @05:42PM (#15474496)
Fair enough. But there is a distinction between country-agnostic labor/environmental protections and tariffs which benefit one country over another.
Re:Becoming a Steelworker Liberated Her, Then Her Job Moved ... by leereeves on Saturday October 14, 2017 @02:41PM (#15473539)
I agree that interconnection makes the economy more dynamic. Part of that dynamism, unfortunately, is the death of local companies. Good for those who have money, but costly for those who lose their jobs.
Re:Becoming a Steelworker Liberated Her, Then Her Job Moved ... by bryananderson on Saturday October 14, 2017 @05:41PM (#15474484)
This is a fair point. Perhaps we can have a common-sense regulation regime that protects workers and the environment without sacrificing the benefits of comparative advantage?
Re:Becoming a Steelworker Liberated Her, Then Her Job Moved ... by mikeash on Saturday October 14, 2017 @04:22PM (#15474059)
This sounds like a broken window fallacy to me. Inefficiency can manifest as more jobs, but that doesn't mean people are better off.
Re:Becoming a Steelworker Liberated Her, Then Her Job Moved ... by nine_k on Saturday October 14, 2017 @05:09PM (#15474318)
Soviet Union was a prime example of that: constant lack of people to do work, third-world living standards, and colossal inefficiency.

It ceased to exist mere 26 years ago.