News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from V... by AdmiralAsshat on Thursday October 12, 2017 @10:41AM (#15458288)
That would depend on the perspective of the follower. In general, each successive religion sees itself as a continuation of the former, but the former does not see its successor as legitimate.

Meaning, if you asked a Christian whether he and a Jewish follow believe in the same god, he would say yes. The Jew would probably say No (I once heard a Jewish man refer to the New Testament as "that appendix").

By the same token, a Muslim would insist that he follows the same god of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, etc. A Christian, however, would say that he does not.

See also the Druze and Bahai'i faiths, which draw upon an extend the Abrahamic faiths.

Re:Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from V... by hprotagonist on Thursday October 12, 2017 @11:10AM (#15458539)
>a Muslim would insist that he follows the same god of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, etc. A Christian, however, would say that he does not.

I'm Christian, and I believe that the abrahamic religions worship the same entity. "The lamp is different; the light is the same." Now what? :-)

Re:Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from V... by AdmiralAsshat on Thursday October 12, 2017 @11:56AM (#15458888)
I should have used the word "probably" in all accompanying instances of "would"--the extent to which the followers are inclusive of other members of the Abrahamic faiths obviously vary from community to individual follower. I merely wished to limit confusion.

Yes, many Christians will consider that Muslims worship the same God. On the other hand, I grew up in the American South, and I can assure you that the sentiment is not universally shared down here.

Re:Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from V... by hprotagonist on Thursday October 12, 2017 @12:26PM (#15459101)
In my understanding, (most) (white) (christian) people in the american south only concluded that catholics were christian in the last ~50 years or so... ;-)
Re:Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from V... by theprotocol on Thursday October 12, 2017 @11:17AM (#15458595)
The question is a variant of Theseus's Paradox. If you change some parts of God's character and actions, is it still the same god, or another? It really depends what kind of sameness you're asking about: grammatical, historical, nominal (claimed)... The question is otherwise ambiguous.

You are right nominally; the person you're replying to is right in terms of doctrine. Otherwise, you would say you were Muslim (or some pan-abrahamic variant) and not Christian.

Re:Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from V... by hprotagonist on Thursday October 12, 2017 @11:22AM (#15458629)
THE SECOND VATICAN COUNCIL teaches that Muslims "adore the one God, living and subsisting in himself; merciful and all-powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth, who has spoken to humans. They take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even God's inscrutable decrees".

Pope John Paul II has said the fact that Christians and Muslims worship "the One and same God" is a factor that draws the two communities together and lays the basis for love and cooperation between the two communities of believers.

Really? Catholics, Anglicans, most "mainline" Protestant churches are doctrinally copacetic with the notion that jews, muslims and christians alike all worship the god of abraham. This was not always so, of course, but it turns out that ecumenicalism is a pretty smart idea.

To your point about Theseus -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophatic_theology is germane here. In this way of thinking, definitionally we can only agree on what God isn't, not what it is.

Re:Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from V... by theprotocol on Thursday October 12, 2017 @11:34AM (#15458724)
>Really? Catholics, Anglicans, most "mainline" Protestant churches are doctrinally copacetic with the notion that jews, muslims and christians alike all worship the god of abraham. This was not always so, of course, but it turns out that ecumenicalism is a pretty smart idea.

Sure, but the criterion for sameness is what matters. I see this as cultural and historical sameness, not doctrinal; the doctrines of the Abrahamic religions certainly do not agree on the fundamentals.

I also don't view it as apophatic, as I acknowledge both positive and negative claims are possible. I just think it comes down to the criteria of "sameness" and so it's ultimately an ambiguous question, and one must specify what is effectively being asked. Depending on the actual question, both your answer and others can work.

Re:Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from V... by hprotagonist on Thursday October 12, 2017 @11:44AM (#15458797)
OK. So from that angle, though, it's turtles all the way down. Since I am not You, and thus we are not the same, our internal conceptions of _anything_, God included, are going to have some fuzz.

If you're too strict about sameness criteria, it's difficult to agree on what, like, pants are, and we wind up at the relatively trivial solipsism arguments that get boring pretty quick.

If you go back far enough, of course, the doctrines of the abrahamic religions _do_ agree on the fundamentals. "God made stuff, God is on our side, act accordingly." The procession of covenantal relationships throughout history (with noah, abraham, issac, ishmael, jacob, john, jesus, mohammed, etc. etc. ) continually reinterpret what that means for people, but the basics are something everyone can break bread over.

Re:Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from V... by posterboy on Thursday October 12, 2017 @01:15PM (#15459525)
> If you're too strict about sameness criteria, it's difficult to agree on what, like, pants are, and we wind up at the relatively trivial solipsism arguments that get boring pretty quick.

> ... fundamentals ...

If I may butt in. That's one such essential message of these religions, that we are all the same and equal. Yet their essence is to define the respects in which to compare for equality and in those they do differ substantially. The primary difference is the question of authority, which has differing answers IMHO, and I believe that's the same question as the GP was asking.

And so you pretty quickly end up with fundamentalism, except that they all cannot agree on whose fundamentalism, whose authority, whose definition of failure to accept.

Re:Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from V... by posterboy on Thursday October 12, 2017 @01:41PM (#15459717)
no, the question is as ambiguous as the source material, there is no specification. And the authors likely couldn't answer coherently either, so it's indeed an cboose your own adventure type of question.
Re:Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from V... by posterboy on Thursday October 12, 2017 @12:45PM (#15459292)
> the same entity

abraham?

Re:Arabic characters found woven into burial costumes from V... by hprotagonist on Thursday October 12, 2017 @12:50PM (#15459330)
i was trying to be non-anthropomorphic while referring to god. Whoops.