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Re:Puerto Rican Hospitals Battle Life and Death Daily by toomuchtodo on Thursday October 05, 2017 @03:57PM (#15412122)
Something came to mind the other day, when someone was on Hacker News in Puerto Rico mentioning how they were leaving (for Atlanta I think)?

What if we just crowdfunded people getting out of PR and helping them get setup in the US? If the US government won't address the humanitarian crisis, yet its still a humanitarian crisis, could we still not address it collectively as private individuals?

When a government turns its back on its citizens, its citizens are left to help their fellow citizens.

EDIT: Based on the thread response, I suppose we'll just watch everyone suffer in Puerto Rico. Mission Accomplished /s

Re:Puerto Rican Hospitals Battle Life and Death Daily by eropple on Thursday October 05, 2017 @03:59PM (#15412142)
Scaling problem. If you wanted to get ten thousand people out and settled somewhere else, you'd be talking about close to ten thousand dollars apiece between transit and housing and job search and overhead--we're not crowdfunding a hundred million dollars.

BTW, Puerto Rico has about 3.5 million residents.

Crowdfunding as a patch is both mathematically unlikely in the short term and socially toxic in the long term--this is why we have governments, they can marshal the proper number of zeroes at the end of the number, it's their job. At least, when led by people who believe it is their mission to actually do their jobs.

Re:Puerto Rican Hospitals Battle Life and Death Daily by cujic9 on Thursday October 05, 2017 @04:20PM (#15412286)
Hopefully your last point gets remembered at upcoming elections.
Re:Puerto Rican Hospitals Battle Life and Death Daily by othersideofcoin on Thursday October 05, 2017 @11:08PM (#15414158)
Isn't it a fallacy to do nothing because you can't do everything for everyone?
Re:Puerto Rican Hospitals Battle Life and Death Daily by emodendroket on Friday October 06, 2017 @09:34AM (#15416635)
Is crowdfunding some plane tickets really the most effective thing you can do? Is entirely abandoning Puerto Rico actually what Puerto Ricans want? Is crowdfunding abandonment the response you would want if your state faced a natural disaster?
Re:Puerto Rican Hospitals Battle Life and Death Daily by toomuchtodo on Friday October 06, 2017 @12:49PM (#15418238)
> Is crowdfunding some plane tickets really the most effective thing you can do?

Yes. As a US citizen, it is far cheaper for me to help a Puerto Rican fly to the mainland and get a job, versus the enourmous money pit that is Puerto Rico's finances (which calls for, in their constitution, taxes be funneled to bondholders before infrastructure).

> Is entirely abandoning Puerto Rico actually what Puerto Ricans want?

This does not matter to me. I'm willing to help those that want to leave and can find opportunity elsewhere. The current US administration as shown they won't help. The Puerto Rican government has no ability to help themselves. Shall we just let people slowly suffer until death?

> Is crowdfunding abandonment the response you would want if your state faced a natural disaster?

When a ship is sinking, you don't demand people stop throwing life rafts and get back on the boat to repair the boat. If I were a natural disaster victim, I would happily accept any form of help provided if I was left with nothing.

Re:Puerto Rican Hospitals Battle Life and Death Daily by irrational on Thursday October 05, 2017 @04:10PM (#15412216)
I lived in PR for a few years. Almost everyone I met (thousands of people) had family in the mainland (and had been up there to visit them at least once). I was told that there were more Puerto Ricans on the mainland than in PR. I'm just imaging what would happen if everyone (or the majority) left PR to go live with their families in NY or Florida or wherever... for sure the debt would never get paid back since the tax base would be gone, the villages would quickly disappear as the fast growing plant life took things back over, the resorts would have to close unless they brought in a lot of Dominicans to fill the positions... it's crazy to think about, but I could totally see it happening.
Re:Puerto Rican Hospitals Battle Life and Death Daily by jonlawlor on Thursday October 05, 2017 @04:28PM (#15412344)
Puerto Rico's population has been falling for the last 10 years or so, which is a strong factor in why they had so much trouble with debt. This is going to make it much worse. See https://www.cfr.org/blog/puerto-rico-maria for a lot more detail.
Re:Puerto Rican Hospitals Battle Life and Death Daily by djKianoosh on Thursday October 05, 2017 @04:26PM (#15412330)
instead, investors with money will buy up good locations and build bigger resorts and turn PR into something more like Aruba or the resort towns in Mexico. except closer. zero middle class and lots of cheap unskilled labor.

at least thats one possible outcome.

Re:Puerto Rican Hospitals Battle Life and Death Daily by emodendroket on Thursday October 05, 2017 @04:32PM (#15412369)
Don't forget those high-risk, high-return bonds Congress won't let them default on and all the effects of that. Things were already arguably headed that way.
Re:Puerto Rican Hospitals Battle Life and Death Daily by pvaldes on Thursday October 05, 2017 @04:56PM (#15412521)
Because Is expected that those people will not work?. If they work they can contribute. People living in a different country pay taxes also. Dead people can't.

With most infrastructures distroyed, tourism industry in Puerto Rico will not employ much people for some time probably, so many Puerto Ricans will be unable to pay a lot of taxes in any case, not if they remain in the island.

Re:Puerto Rican Hospitals Battle Life and Death Daily by dragonwriter on Thursday October 05, 2017 @05:29PM (#15412730)
People moving from Puerto Rico to the US aren't living in a different country. They’ll continue to pay taxes to the same country (in fact, more taxes to the country), but they won't pay local taxes in Puerto Rico, for the same reason a US citizen who used to live in San Francisco but now lives in Salt Lake City doesn't pay taxes in San Francisco or California.

Puerto Rico is a US colony (or, more politely, territory), not a foreign country.

Re:Puerto Rican Hospitals Battle Life and Death Daily by irrational on Thursday October 05, 2017 @05:26PM (#15412706)
Well, PR is not a different country. Puerto Ricans are Americans. When they live in PR they pay "state" taxes to PR. But if they are living in NY then they will pay NY state taxes, not PR "state" taxes.
Re:Puerto Rican Hospitals Battle Life and Death Daily by emodendroket on Friday October 06, 2017 @07:21AM (#15415860)
Puerto Rico is not one of these extremely underdeveloped economies where the only work is in tourism. In fact the pharmaceutical industry is facing a bunch of shortages since PR is a major manufacturing hub for them.
Re:Puerto Rican Hospitals Battle Life and Death Daily by pryelluw on Thursday October 05, 2017 @07:26PM (#15413336)
Im the one leaving to Atlanta [0]. Crowdfunding might work, but how would you scale it? In my case, I dont need money from a crowsource campaign. I just need a job once I arrive by the 15th. Others who are leaving do so, too. Keep an eye out for those. :)

I think everyone in the US should take notice of how things are being handled because this could be you in the future.

[0]Link to my resume in case you are hiring and interested:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9bEeheRVaXZZm1YR3EyVkhVWUk...

Re:Puerto Rican Hospitals Battle Life and Death Daily by pvaldes on Thursday October 05, 2017 @05:50PM (#15412839)
Upvoted because I still find the second paragraph introducing crowfunding a valuable adition to the debate. I don't know how, and agree with the problems with asking people to do the job of the government, thus paying two times for the same thing, but maybe could still be useful at a minor scale or if headed towards a different goal