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Re:The Montreal Protocol was a landmark environmental success by pjc50 on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @11:30AM (#15339514)
So how would you have proposed changing behaviour on a massive scale?
Re:The Montreal Protocol was a landmark environmental success by mseebach on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @11:45AM (#15339667)
Not the OP, but: don't. You can't.

Never mind that it's not practical, it's also simply not moral. Rich people in the west probably could and should use less energy, but something like 3/5ths of the world are entering the global middle class, and it's just wrong that we sit in out Teslas and tell them to forego the comfortable high-energy lifestyles that we've benefitted from.

Re:The Montreal Protocol was a landmark environmental success by pjc50 on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @12:03PM (#15339872)
You're kind of assuming there's no moral weight on the other side of the scale.

Statistical morality is not something that humans or even moral philosophers are very good at, but that doesn't mean it can be ignored. Statements like "the probability of a flood exacerbated by sea level rise causing X million people to die in Bangladesh goes up by Y for every liter of gasoline you use". Y is very small but it's not zero. Does that mean that if some disaster happens everyone who uses gasoline is very slightly culpable? It's difficult to talk about.

> forego the comfortable high-energy lifestyles

One interpretation of the IPCC reports might be that "if all 7bn+ people on earth use American levels of energy from fossil fuels then the average temperature will rise by an amount which will cause massive crop failures". That is, it might be impossible as a matter of physics for everyone to have comfortable, cheap high-fossil-energy lifestyles while still growing enough to eat.

Re:The Montreal Protocol was a landmark environmental success by systematical on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @11:56AM (#15339780)
I'd throw the issue over to DARPA and see if a more advanced solution is possible. Maybe we have giant solar powered aircraft combing the skies collecting CO2 and breaking it down to carbon. Or build a laser that zaps the stuff, lasers are cool, everyone loves lasers whether your gay, straight, right, left, or just don't give AF - you still love lasers. I don't know if the science behind any of that is feasible, but we have done a lot of stuff as humans that wasn't viewed as feasible at some point. And, it gets rid of Republicans main complaint of impacting the economy. Of course this would require funding, but it could be packaged into a nice shiny defense bill.

It's better than our "solution" of not good enough incremental progress on reduction and not good enough incremental increases in renewable energy. Neither of those baby steps deal with the amount of CO2 already in the atmosphere.

Re:The Montreal Protocol was a landmark environmental success by pjc50 on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @12:04PM (#15339884)
> Of course this would require funding

Well, yes, that's the trillion dollar question. How do you get it funded?

Re:The Montreal Protocol was a landmark environmental success by systematical on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @12:12PM (#15339974)
Lasers.
Re:The Montreal Protocol was a landmark environmental success by thriftwy on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @12:43PM (#15340333)
Why do people have to change behaviour, instead of a change in technology?

Change in behaviour is not what humans are good at. Proof: "Thou shalt not kill".

Just launch the damn solar shade already!

Re:The Montreal Protocol was a landmark environmental success by pjc50 on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @01:29PM (#15340783)
Changing spending priorities to fund tech mega projects that do not provide a profit is a change in behavior.