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Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by TeMPOraL on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @06:57AM (#15337601)
> The cost to the viewer is ultimately a few cents of electricity

And the cost to the society is few cents of electricity minus fraction of a cent the site gets, paid in fuel being wasted on producing that electricity.

Crypto mining is a disaster. If I were an evil mastermind who wanted to deepen the energy and climate problems of the world, cryptocurrencies is what I would push for.

Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by trophycase on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @07:59AM (#15337850)
What about the millions and millions of man hours that go into creating and distributing advertising? Surely that's also an enormous waste?
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by TeMPOraL on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @08:16AM (#15337925)
It is. And I speak out frequently against it.

Advertising today is mostly a zero-sum game, where all the effort you put into it goes to offset the equivalent effort your competitor puts into it. Thus it forms a feedback loop of ever increasing waste.

Still, this topic is not relevant to discussion about merits of cryptocurrencies.

Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by kbart on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @08:04AM (#15337865)
Why do you think that minor cryptocurrencies mining operations are worse in regards of wasted fuel than playing computer games, watching mindless YouTube videos, scrolling Facebook, leaving devices on when not used, lighting places 24/7 where nobody goes at night anyway etc.? We, as society, waste an enormous amount of resources anyway, I don't see how mining in browser would even dent that. Sure, these mega cryptocurrency mining stations is totally different thing I'm not talking here about.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by criddell on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @08:15AM (#15337918)
Mining in a browser is going to consume my battery and bandwidth and you shouldn't be surprised that people aren't happy about that.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by kbart on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @08:16AM (#15337926)
"Mining in a browser is going to consume my battery and bandwidth"

You mean just like ads do? Of course, in a perfect world we wouldn't have either, but I just don't see clear distinction between mining in browser or ads or other useless/annoying things (from the user perspective).

Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by TeMPOraL on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @08:33AM (#15338038)
In ads, waste of electricity is a bug. The more lean you can make them, the better (even if only because you can then put more of them). In cryptocurrencies, waste is a feature. The more power you burn, the more money you get.

One of those disincentivizes waste (howewer weakly). The other incentivizes it.

Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by detaro on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @08:17AM (#15337930)
People are unhappy about the kind of ads that do that excessively too.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by TeMPOraL on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @08:31AM (#15338018)
Cryptocurrencies in the browser are[0] irrelevant. But they're a part of larger ecosystem of cryptocurrency mining, and that ecosystem is a huge problem.

> playing computer games, watching mindless YouTube videos, scrolling Facebook, leaving devices on when not used, lighting places 24/7 where nobody goes at night anyway etc.?

We do. But all those examples are the case where energy use gives us something (fun, convenience) and where the waste is bounded (there're only so many devices I can leave powered, and also I have to pay for the power they use). Crypto mining literally pays you for wasting power, so the more electricity you can burn, the more money you get. And the more people join in, the more you have to burn to keep up. So there's almost no ceiling to how much personally you get to waste, and a strong incentive to waste as much as you can.

And what's all of that for? To replace a system that works fine and does not have a greed-powered feedback loop of waste? That's just dumb.

--

[0] - Currently. Hopefully they'll always stay that way, but there's an off chance this becomes so popular that all new computers will come equipped with additional hardware and drivers to mine crypto for micropayments.

Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by kbart on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @08:45AM (#15338112)
"Crypto mining literally pays you for wasting power, so the more electricity you can burn, the more money you get."

Well, you (or somebody else) still has to pay for power consumption used for mining, so it just converts money you pay for energy bill to micropayments (though in very unfavorable rate as of yet). Don't get me wrong, I don't advocate such shady behavior in any way, just wanted to point out that this "wasted power" point is a bit of a stretch.

Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by TeMPOraL on Thursday September 28, 2017 @01:15PM (#15358941)
You pay less for the wasted power than you get in cryptocoins - otherwise you wouldn't mine at all. The delta is what cryptocurrency system pays you for wasting electricity.
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by ekianjo on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @07:08AM (#15337638)
Because you think fiat currencies have no associated energy consumption?
Re:CBS's Showtime caught mining crypto-coins in viewers' web... by TeMPOraL on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @07:17AM (#15337686)
They do. But in management of fiat currencies, it's understood that energy expenditure is an upkeep that is to be reduced. In cryptocurrencies, on the other hand, energy use is a "feature" that's intended to grow over time.

Or put differently, cryptocurrencies are trying to replace a system that's O(log n) with respect to energy with a system that's O(n^2), for questionable and mostly imaginary benefit of trustless payments.