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Re:Understanding Uber: It's Not About the App by yeukhon on Monday September 25, 2017 @09:28AM (#15330256)
There are two parts to this. First, we don't know how the conversations went between Uber and the vitcims, because both viticms seen to have the impressions Uber would report this to the police, which is odd given the viticms should report to the police first. But on the other hand, Uber should work with the viticms to ensure the viticms are reporting to the police. Imaginr you were sexually assaulted on the train, on campus, or at work, not only you should contact the police yourself, but the administration should engage in aid. A train station worker shouldn't just stand next to a vitcim and say well the alleged attacker denies it so we are lettig the attack go. If you were assaulted at work, you should find someone you can trust and go to either the HR and call the cops. Uber is not responsible for the attack, but as a company it has the responsibility to take every claim seriously, and ensure law enforcement is involved, because Uber's reputation and customer trust are at stake. Every company should have a crisis protocol.

On the other hand, I can't think of better example than Uber's toxic company cultute. Harassments gone to blackhole with HR....

Re:Understanding Uber: It's Not About the App by tomp on Monday September 25, 2017 @09:40AM (#15330357)
> but as a company it has the responsibility to take every claim seriously, and ensure law enforcement is involved,

I disagree. Customers expecting this results in the awkward situation we're in today. If instead we train people to rely on themselves (and the police), many of these situations could be avoided (or, at least, resolved in a better way).

Re:Understanding Uber: It's Not About the App by dx034 on Monday September 25, 2017 @09:59AM (#15330506)
The problem is that the victim only has the data from the app. Only Uber has the actual identity of the driver. If Uber is unwilling to cooperate with the police, getting the identity will at least require a court order.

If Uber behaved correctly, they would've reported the case to the police with the identity of the driver. This process is much faster and allows for a quicker police investigation.

Re:Understanding Uber: It's Not About the App by true_religion on Monday September 25, 2017 @10:39AM (#15330838)
They are willing to cooperate with the police. They just don't file the complaints themselves. I would say this is reasonable since it is the policy at all companies I have worked with as well.

Any charge of employees doing criminal acts are reported by those who see them. If no one else at the company sees it, then it is left up to the alleged victim. They company does not want to be seen as attacking it's employees based in hearsay.

In Ubers case these aren't even employees so they are left carrying hearsays to the police against third parties.

Re:Understanding Uber: It's Not About the App by DanBC on Monday September 25, 2017 @11:39AM (#15331316)
> They are willing to cooperate with the police.

From the article:

> It is expected, however, that serious crimes will be dealt with promptly, and reported directly to the police as well.

And

> At this point, the police attempted to investigate (pepper spray is an offensive weapon in the UK) but, the letter indicated, Uber refused to provide more information unless a formal request via the Data Protection Act was submitted.

But they report every crime if they're the victim:

> Uber are however proactive in reporting lower level document frauds to both the MPS and LTPH.

Re:Understanding Uber: It's Not About the App by eyko on Monday September 25, 2017 @12:49PM (#15331962)
> At this point, the police attempted to investigate (pepper spray is an offensive weapon in the UK) but, the letter indicated, Uber refused to provide more information unless a formal request via the Data Protection Act was submitted.

If I understood correctly, the victim did not contact the police, but that Uber contacted the police after the second assault, after which the scenario above happened. Also, why is it an issue for the police to make a formal request and why does this reflect negatively, instead of positively, on Uber?

Re:Understanding Uber: It's Not About the App by DanBC on Monday September 25, 2017 @06:22PM (#15334673)
Police shouldn't need to make a formal request, because Uber should have reported it after the first instance.

Police are not asking for hidden confidential information here. They're asking Uber to obey the licensing conditions, which are to report criminal behaviour of their drivers.

Re:Understanding Uber: It's Not About the App by true_religion on Monday September 25, 2017 @09:06PM (#15335407)
Do the licensing conditions require taxi services to report contractor addresses, telephone numbers, and rider history immediately anytime there is any potential criminal dispute?

If so, then essentially your history is an open book to any UK police departments.

If not, then your ride history is safe under the Data Protection Act.

DPA isn't some black magic. Medical providers are required to report abuses as well, but they don't send patient history or tell who else an employee has worked with or on unless there's a formal request.

Regardless, I hope that Uber comes into compliance with the ULL shortly, and their future behavior is not merely in line with the standard but better than that of other smaller minicab companies.

Re:Understanding Uber: It's Not About the App by anon1385 on Monday September 25, 2017 @11:13AM (#15331102)
>They are willing to cooperate with the police

Except when they aren't: https://fymhotsauce.rocks/blogs/news/my-uber-driver-robbed-m...

Re:Understanding Uber: It's Not About the App by swish_bob on Monday September 25, 2017 @12:58PM (#15332055)
Except as a taxi operator (in London) they are required to report these incidents to the police if they are made aware of them. They appear not to, to the extent that the Met have complained.
Re:Understanding Uber: It's Not About the App by kwhitefoot on Monday September 25, 2017 @10:50AM (#15330908)
> Only Uber has the actual identity of the driver.

That's strange. Everywhere I go in Europe and Scandinavia the taxi displays the photo ID card of the driver.

Re:Understanding Uber: It's Not About the App by DanBC on Monday September 25, 2017 @11:36AM (#15331295)
Bit hard to get that if you've left the car and the driver assaults you.
Re:Understanding Uber: It's Not About the App by FabHK on Monday September 25, 2017 @03:40PM (#15333389)
Regulated taxis do, but cars hired via the Uber app don't. (You might see the first name in the app, but that's it).
Re:Understanding Uber: It's Not About the App by zwily on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @08:50AM (#15338142)
First name and license plate. That should be enough for the police to go off of.
Re:Understanding Uber: It's Not About the App by dx034 on Thursday September 28, 2017 @08:09AM (#15356492)
But still harder than getting name, address and phone number from uber. The car can be registered to someone else which drags out the process.
Re:Understanding Uber: It's Not About the App by yeukhon on Monday September 25, 2017 @09:46AM (#15330400)
You missed my early point. Please read what I wrote. I advocate viticms to report first. But Uber has the responsibility to ensure these allegations are rightfully documented. If someone punched you in the face at Starbuck, what is the first thing the worker say to you? "Are you okay?" What else will the worker say? "What happened? Do you want me to call 911?"

Usually stores have policy to notify manager so the manager can decide what to do. If Uber treat this kind of allegations as a normal support ticket, and nothing is done, well, fml. It better now come up with a better protocol so the support team has a manaul book to follow.

Re:Understanding Uber: It's Not About the App by tomp on Monday September 25, 2017 @09:51AM (#15330429)
eyko's post above suggests that they went above and beyond what you're suggesting (including reporting the incident to TfL and "firing" the driver). (Unless Uber are lying, of course, which is unlikely IMO, but less unlikely than for most other companies.)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15330392

Re:Understanding Uber: It's Not About the App by DanBC on Monday September 25, 2017 @11:40AM (#15331326)
Reporting to TfL isn't even the minimum requirement, so I'm not sure how you get from "don't do enough" to going "above and beyond".
Re:Understanding Uber: It's Not About the App by _jal on Monday September 25, 2017 @01:03PM (#15332095)
And if you start your campaign, perhaps in time you can shift the norms to be what you think they should be. Today, however, the London PtB have expectations that are not being met in this arena and the power to say 'no'. And yet Uber insists on being the definition of a snowflake - somehow their competitors are perfectly capable of interacting with the police and regulators.

Uber is clearly competent to report criminal assaults. They report other things. And ignoring their apparent PR desires, it looks not just stupid and a caricature of bro-havior, but also absurd - why make not reporting sexual assault the hill you want to die on? If I were an investor... Oh wait, there are already lawsuits flying (indirectly) over this behavior.

Uber has a choice. Keep acting like multinational frat house, and likely be pecked to death by more actions like this, or accept that others have no obligation to hold them in the same extreme esteem they apparently hold themselves, and act like they want to run a business in the real world, in which laws exist.

Or, hey, go Galt already. Please.

Re:Understanding Uber: It's Not About the App by debaserab2 on Monday September 25, 2017 @11:31AM (#15331252)
..so companies shouldn't do anything when their employees are accused of committing a sex crime on the job?