News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:It’s time to kill the web app by vbezhenar on Saturday September 23, 2017 @07:12PM (#15322285)
I don't think that the web is complex, at least not in a sense I'm understanding "complexity" word. Web is a huge pile of semi-specified standards. There are bunch of written standards, like XML, HTML, DOM, JavaScript, CSS (each with multiple versions). There is a lot of tribal knowledge, that you'll get only with experience, like things that doesn't work with IE 6 (luckily IE 6 is not very relevant today). There is some security-related stuff, things that you should remember if you don't want to make a vulnerable website. But it's not a complexity, it's just a lot of things.

Now there's a bad tools. JavaScript is a bad language and its ecosystem is mostly terrible. If you want to create react app with hot reload using es6 and other things that modern developer expects to have, you'll end up with tons of configuration glues, some experimental hacks and many tools hacked together. Or you can download "starter" template, where those hacks are already glued for you. Good luck to add or change or fix something there. In contrast I can write very simple maven config and it'll support almost everything I would ever need without any configuration. It's difficult to navigate among those tools, but this difficulty will be solved with better tools and better documentation. I'm eager to wait until I can throw webpack and just write ES7 with imports and browser will understand it. I shouldn't need build tools for web.

Re:It’s time to kill the web app by Falkon1313 on Saturday September 23, 2017 @11:06PM (#15323081)
That is complexity. It's layers upon layers upon layers of dynamic runtime interactions. Try working on maintaining/extending a web application that's been developed over the course of many years, during that course of time using all of those technologies in many different versions, with the many different styles of architecture and best practices that were 'the right way' to do it at the various points in time when those parts of the system were added. You'll find all kinds of complexity in there, even without looking at the server-side.

Then you mention the modern ecosystem of javascript tools with all of its glued-together hacks, dependency nightmares, grey boxes of 3rd party code that you can look at but don't have the time to understand fully (all of which use different styles/techniques). That is complexity.

The alternative as described by the article is traditional development where you have a language+IDE+GUI design tool that compiles applications into a single file that, if it compiles, just works (except for any bugs). People who haven't developed in Delphi or similar environment have no idea how much less complexity there could be.