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Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown by faragon on Friday September 22, 2017 @11:37AM (#15313122)
.cat domains work properly, e.g. http://www.elperiodico.cat (tested from Barcelona)

TL;DR: if you break the law, expect to get punished. The operators knew they were breaking the law, so involved sites in that domain were blocked. I.e. not a ".cat" generic blockage, but a specific action driven from a court.

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown by princekolt on Friday September 22, 2017 @11:48AM (#15313217)
Did you even read the article? Or did you just jerk-reply in an effort to criticize people or the movement?

> First, the content in question here is essentially political speech, which the European Court of Human Rights has ruled as deserving of a higher level of protection than some other forms of speech. Even though the speech concerns a referendum that has been ruled illegal, the speech does not in itself pose any imminent threat to life or limb.

What the Spanish government did is considered censorship under any reasonable system of law. Justifying one "wrong" with another is not gonna get anyone anywhere anytime. But since the Spanish government is fond of censorship, this reaction shouldn't come as a surprise.

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown by tirant on Friday September 22, 2017 @12:37PM (#15313680)
In the broad sense of the word, yes, it is censorship. But I do not think it falls under political speech.

The content blocked is content being announced by an official entity (Generalitat) containing information about the unilateral organization of a referendum. The Generalitat as an official organism needs to abide by the existing constitutional laws. The judge as initial measure, has dictated to retrieve all official material with information regarding the organization of the referendum. No other pages from dotCAT have been seized, including unofficial ones with information about the referendum.

The EFF should also take into account that the Generalitat has unlawfully obtained private information from millions of citizens in order to be able to create a list of possible voters.

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown by Oletros on Friday September 22, 2017 @12:48PM (#15313768)
And this is what EFF says:

>Whether it's allegations of sedition or any other form of unlawful or controversial speech, domain name intermediaries should not be held responsible for the content of websites that utilize their domains. If such content is unlawful, a court order directed to the publisher or host of that content is the appropriate way for authorities to deal with that illegality, rather than the blanket removal of entire domains from the Internet.

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown by fabianmg on Friday September 22, 2017 @12:05PM (#15313365)
There's a system of law in Spain, is called the constitution. And the unilateral call for seccession or doing a referendum not allowed by the constitution or the courts is not allowed in any democracy.

I'm in favor of a referendum so the catalans can decide if they want to be in Spain or not. But I'm not in favor of a unilateral decision.

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown by tbatchelli on Friday September 22, 2017 @12:59PM (#15313865)
Yeah, my grandfather was also given a death sentence under the rule of the law, because of his political ideas. That was Spain. Laws can be immoral. Breaking immoral laws is a duty of everyone. Now these immoral laws are applied to Catalans who want to vote, but next it can be you.

Women wouldn't be voting if they never broke the law first.

Giving a Tax amnesty to very rich tax dodgers (as the current Spanish government has done recently) has been ruled to be against the Rule of The Law and the Spanish Constitution, yes? Who is going to jail for this? No one.

The constitution only matters when it matters to some.

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown by kuschku on Friday September 22, 2017 @12:12PM (#15313422)
That’s not an option, the rules of the European Convention on Human Rights – which protect this - stand above the spanish constitution.

I expect this will go further up to the European Court of Human Rights, and, like in previous cases where for example German law (and constitutional changes) conflicted with these protections, the European Convention on Human Rights will be ruled to stand above any national law or constitution.

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown by princekolt on Friday September 22, 2017 @02:16PM (#15314446)
No one here is discussing whether the referendum is legal or not, but you keep bringing this subject up. I am not Catalan or even Spanish, so I don't care a bit for it.

What's being argued here is that seizing the .cat TLD when a page registered in it was hosting "unlawful" content consists in pure and simple censorship. It would be similar to the US government taking control of the .com TLD because some website hosted on a .com domain is selling drugs. This is censorship.

To quote the article (which apparently you didn't read) again:

> Whether it's allegations of sedition or any other form of unlawful or controversial speech, domain name intermediaries should not be held responsible for the content of websites that utilize their domains. If such content is unlawful, a court order directed to the publisher or host of that content is the appropriate way for authorities to deal with that illegality, rather than the blanket removal of entire domains from the Internet.

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown by faragon on Friday September 22, 2017 @12:14PM (#15313449)
It was not political speech: the blocked site included private information of citizens (census), without permission. You can not use your power as regional government to ignore the Constitution.

In addition, the web is now hosted in another domain, against the law, not because of "free speech", but because of using protected private information from citizens: https://onvotar.garantiespelreferendum.com/on-votar/index.ht...

This is not about "free speech", but about the sublevation of a regional government, against the rule of law, i.e. against citizen's rights.

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown by Oletros on Friday September 22, 2017 @12:45PM (#15313736)
Bullshit, then block the domain, not seize the TLD registar.

This is a very dangerous precedent

And yes, I think that the CONTENT is ilegal and I would denunce it if my data is there, but the TLD has nothing to do with that

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown by fabianmg on Friday September 22, 2017 @11:55AM (#15313285)
> What the Spanish government did is considered censorship under any reasonable system of law.

That's simply put... bulshit, I'm far from supporting the ultra right wing catholic goverment from Madrid, but spreading plain lies to victimize yourself doesn't make them true.

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown by lostmsu on Friday September 22, 2017 @12:04PM (#15313357)
Could you elaborate why it is bullshit? Parent's comment seems to be a very good point. Is he factually incorrect? How?
Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown by euyyn on Friday September 22, 2017 @12:43PM (#15313725)
To start, the judiciary isn't part of the Spanish government, it's an independent branch like Congress. Like in most or all western countries. These actions have been taken by the order of Catalan judges.

If someone thinks the laws the judges are interpreting are unconstitutional, or against European treaties, they can denounce those laws against the Spanish Constitutional Court, or the appropriate European court.

If they think the interpretation is what's flawed, they can appeal and / or denounce the judges to the Spanish Supreme Court. If the argument would become that the judiciary is corrupt and owned by the Government, from the Barcelona courts all the way up to the Supreme Court; it should be remembered that the Spanish Supreme Court sentenced a Ministro del Interior (like Secretary of State, the de-facto most powerful position after the President) to 10 years in prison.

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown by pera on Friday September 22, 2017 @11:54AM (#15313277)
I am trying to follow the situation in Catalonia, and I have one question: Is any kind of publication (done by private citizens) about the referendum actually illegal in Spain? Thanks.
Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown by darthdev on Friday September 22, 2017 @12:21PM (#15313521)
No. It is though illegal that a public institution (using of course public founds from ALL Spaniards) promote in any way an illegal action. The Spanish term is "prevaricación" (perversion of justice), is commonly used when a public servant use his power to make knowingly an illegal action.

Note: This is what I read recently regarding this issue, but I am not a law expert, so take this with a grain of salt.

Edit: typos.

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown by enriquto on Friday September 22, 2017 @01:44PM (#15314186)
it is illegal for privately owned publications to publish government calls for the referendum. They receive threatening letters asking them to comply, and many pulications thus refuse to publish these calls.
Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown by fabianmg on Friday September 22, 2017 @11:56AM (#15313296)
Not about the referendum, but about what happened last days:

https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/09/20/inenglish/1505917320_78...

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown by cosarara97 on Friday September 22, 2017 @12:33PM (#15313617)
A newspaper that's biased against independence doesn't sound like a very good source. Unless you are fine with the clear bias, of course.
Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown by tirant on Friday September 22, 2017 @12:40PM (#15313701)
ElPais, as most of newspapers in Spain have a position regarding the celebration of the referendum, and they have been very biased before with other information, but in this case the content is spot-on.

That said, the law is just a tool used by the people to live peacefully in a society. If people are not happy about it, the law needs to be changed.

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown by pera on Friday September 22, 2017 @12:07PM (#15313385)
That seems to be in reference to the referendum website operated by the local government (http://www.referendum.cat/), but I read several reports of private citizens with no affiliation with Catalonia's govt being raided by the police just for mirroring websites.
Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown by faragon on Friday September 22, 2017 @12:23PM (#15313541)
It is mirrored, without problem: https://onvotar.garantiespelreferendum.com/on-votar/index.ht...

I don't know if the EFF is aware that the site has citizen personal information without permission. Who protects us as citizens against rebel regional government putting online private information against the rule of law?

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown by pera on Friday September 22, 2017 @02:23PM (#15314494)
The mirrors I checked didn't include that section (@1506104335). Instead they said:

> Shortly the Government will release the details on the polling stations to be used for the 1st October Referendum.

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown by Oletros on Saturday September 23, 2017 @03:00AM (#15318559)
The mirror includes all the data and it gives you the place to vote after entering your NIF and age.

Time to denunce to AEPD

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown by faragon on Friday September 22, 2017 @12:21PM (#15313525)
That article is excellent. It explains pretty well the lies of the rebel regional government.
Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown by enriquto on Friday September 22, 2017 @12:35PM (#15313639)
the article is severely biased

To be fair, it is very difficult to find unbiased and knowledgeable people writing about this. It is best to not rely on only one kind of source if you want to form an opinion.

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown by tirant on Friday September 22, 2017 @12:46PM (#15313748)
I do not think the article is so biased. Puigdemont has totally ignored the law and used his position in power to organize a referendum without any kind of warranties with the only intention to provoke a police intervention from Madrid's government and thus increase the support to his cause.

If the real intention was to organize a referendum, it could have been done with preparation, lawfully and negotiated with other regional political forces who are also supporting it.

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown by Oletros on Friday September 22, 2017 @12:54PM (#15313815)
Agreeing with you first part, I don't agree with your second paragraph.

It has been tried for years, not only in Catalonia, but also in Euskadi.

The Spanish law was changed en 2006 to make those referendums ilegal

Re: .Cat Domain a Casualty in Catalonian Independence Crackdown by Oletros on Friday September 22, 2017 @12:44PM (#15313731)
How is TLD having a domain name registered breaking the law?