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Re:Why competition in the politics industry is failing Ameri... by SkyMarshal on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @08:16AM (#15292843)
Not really, it's that the country as a whole can't decide on the results it wants. Both parties are roughly equally split between moderate and more extreme wings, so even within each party they can't agree, and then when the two parties are pitted against each other in campaigns or in the practice of governing, they again can't agree. Double whammy. It shouldn't be any surprise that under these conditions not much gets done.

Also, controversial opinion here I'm sure, but imho that gridlock is mostly good thing. The less the government is able to do, the more of a stable and predictable state the country is in, making forecasting and planning more reliable. The one exception is the government's inability to reign in deficit spending, and perhaps their longer term inability to ensure solvency of social programs.

Re:Why competition in the politics industry is failing Ameri... by pizza on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @10:31AM (#15294135)
I think it may be true that the country can't decide on what it wants, but instead because the public wants something it isn't getting, something it can't get.

Obviously people don't want to feel uncertain because of volatility in government. The gridlock is intended to curtail legislative havoc a single party might cause if it got too big.

The problem is partisan gridlock only staggers when party interests conflict. Even then, that type of legislation is likely less unreasonable because of its partisan origins - the originating party has to make it palatable through willingness to include concessions, listen to the other party's concerns, address them in modifications and reattempt getting it passed.

The thing is both parties share much in common, and much of what they'd both agree to expand is concerning if not disenfranchising.

- uncritical fealty to institutional authority

- endless war

- the disregard for our privacy in their approval of expanding surveillance

- their disavowal in the strongest terms of any obstacle to their right to secrecy because national security

- deregulating campaign funding

- complicating a law, legislating it, and then relying upon that expertise to guarantee a cushy retirement in the private sector

- a worsening addiction to defense spending

If anything, I'd say the gridlock actually makes it easier for government to grant itself inadequately-justified powers and broaden its scope beyond deemed appropriate. Voters in this political climate see more of its potential going towards negating a vote for the other guy rather than signaling which problems need most attention.

We have a situation where Congressmen/women ignore their constituents and avoid their own town-hall meetings. And when in Washington (to the voter's frustration) much time is wasted, and bitterly. I guess it makes sense that they exhibit the ability to agree mostly on measures that make the government more ruthless, but it's disappointing nonetheless.

Re:Why competition in the politics industry is failing Ameri... by Sangermaine on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @09:15AM (#15293355)
>Both parties are roughly equally split between moderate and more extreme wings

This is simply untrue and false equivalence.

Re:Why competition in the politics industry is failing Ameri... by OtterCoder on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @11:03AM (#15294490)
What? You have the Bernie socialists vs the Clinton centrists on one side, and the Trump MAGA warbirds vs the McCain moderates on the other. It sure looks fractured to me.
Re:Why competition in the politics industry is failing Ameri... by curiousess on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @11:40AM (#15294983)
Re:Why competition in the politics industry is failing Ameri... by richardthered on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @12:55PM (#15295905)
Agree. Also, see the DW Nominate scores for congress. https://voteview.com/parties/all

Liberals are at 0.38, and the most extreme they've ever been was 0.39. They have been somewhat more liberal than they were in the 40s, but they've generally been within the same band of scores for the last 100+ years.

Conservatives, on the other hand, are at 0.49, which is the most conservative they've been in the last 200 years. They've basically doubled since the 1970s.

So, objectively, conservatives are more extreme (0.49) than liberals (0.38) today. Also, the most extreme conservatives are more extreme than the most extreme liberals.

Re:Why competition in the politics industry is failing Ameri... by schoen on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @01:54PM (#15296491)
This method is explained a little bit at

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOMINATE_(scaling_method)

I think this may be the first time I've seen this, but I'm quite confused about the claim to be able to make comparisons across time by simple statistical methods. The model has a clear statistical meaning about the similarity of different members of the same Congress, who have all voted on the same set of questions. But surely the issues that the Congress is actually voting on are radically different from decade to decade? Slavery, the Federal income tax, alcohol prohibition, the New Deal?

Re:Why competition in the politics industry is failing Ameri... by visvavasu on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @11:26AM (#15294804)
Most Trump supporters would suggest they are the moderates when it comes to military intervention, and the McCain traditionalists are the hawks.
Re:Why competition in the politics industry is failing Ameri... by theseatoms on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @12:10PM (#15295378)
Absolutely. Bannon was an anti-interventionist force within the campaign/admin. But he's gone now, so we might see the WH turn towards neo-conservatism.
Re:Why competition in the politics industry is failing Ameri... by Sangermaine on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @12:17PM (#15295449)
To add to the other comments, it's a false equivalence because, while there certainly are factions within both parties, they aren't equally divided. For example, there's simply nothing comparable, in terms of power, effect, and influence, to the Tea Party/"Freedom Caucus" of the Republicans on the Democrat side, at least not yet. Sanders or Warren might prefigure a major shift or break in the party, but it hasn't happened yet. On the Republican side it has happened several times in the past 10 years, first with the "Tea Party" wave and now with Trump.
Re:Why competition in the politics industry is failing Ameri... by AnimalMuppet on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @01:55PM (#15296502)
Doesn't the amount of votes that Sanders got in the primary indicate that there is a farther-left (and maybe even insurgent) Democratic wing that has at least as much "power, effect, and influence" as the Tea Party? Or do you need to see it actually unseat senators in primaries, instead of almost unseat presidential candidates?
Re:Why competition in the politics industry is failing Ameri... by Sangermaine on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @03:54PM (#15297603)
Yes, we'd generally want to see evidence of something before talking about whether it exists. The Tea Party unseated incumbent Senators and Congressmen and forced (or enforced) policy changes in the Republican Party. While they have fallen from their 2010 height, they still wield some power, especially in the House via the "Freedom Caucus".

Meanwhile, thus far the "farther-left (and maybe even insurgent) Democratic wing" for all the noise it seems to make has had little effect on the party. They aren't electing people, they aren't even really challenging incumbents very much.

Contrast this to the steady rightward march of the Republicans over the last 30 years: the rise of the Evangelicals in the 70s, Gingrich's 1994 "Republican Revolution", and more recently the Tea Party wave of 2010 and the explosion of an apparent Trump faction. All of these lead to not only actual electoral victories, if not dominance in the Republican Party in some cases, for the more extreme factions, but were coupled with real threats of incumbents who didn't play ball being "primaried" by more extreme challengers.

As I said, it's possible that the surprising performance of Sanders and the popularity of people like Warren may be the beginning of similar change in the Democratic Party, but until that actually happens it's just not comparable to what's happened to the Republicans.

Re:Why competition in the politics industry is failing Ameri... by dsjoerg on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @09:04AM (#15293264)
Not so; on many issues, the country as a whole (its citizens) knows what it wants but the parties and duopoly can't deliver it because of how they're structured.

For example there are improvements to healthcare, taxation and financial regulation which a supermajority of citizens would agree with, but the current system cannot/will not deliver. These improvements do not particularly align with either party's agenda.

Another example, closer to people here on HN; merit-based immigration. Support among citizens is broad and I am guessing it would be a supermajority; however more politically active and powerful people in the US on the left and right oppose it.

Re:Why competition in the politics industry is failing Ameri... by rayiner on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @09:17AM (#15293371)
The supermajority of Americans would decrease or keep the same the level of legal immigration. So you’d be talking about shifting more of the existing immigration quotas to merit away from family reunification. Americans don’t like that either.
Re:Why competition in the politics industry is failing Ameri... by komaromy on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @09:18AM (#15293390)
> The supermajority of Americans would decrease or keep the same the level of legal immigration

Evidence?

Re:Why competition in the politics industry is failing Ameri... by pjc50 on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @09:42AM (#15293593)
> merit-based immigration

Isn't this what the green card system already is?

Re:Why competition in the politics industry is failing Ameri... by yahna on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @04:42PM (#15298028)
God no.
Re:Why competition in the politics industry is failing Ameri... by yock on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @08:55AM (#15293184)
> the country as a whole can't decide on the results it wants

Which will always be true of sufficiently large groups of humans. The more we insist that we all share common goals, the wider the schism between us becomes.

Re:Why competition in the politics industry is failing Ameri... by theseatoms on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @12:12PM (#15295390)
The system of federalism is helpful on this front, as it allows a higher degree of self-governance, since policy decisions can be made more locally.
Re:Why competition in the politics industry is failing Ameri... by TheCondor on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @08:50AM (#15293133)
This last election is a poster child for the gridlock system being a good one. When things go your way, they never move fast enough, when they go against your wishes, it’s always too fast.