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Re:W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns by thinkloop on Tuesday September 19, 2017 @02:57AM (#15282357)
> If people want to do something about it, they need to fork the web itself. HTTP, TLS, HTML, CSS, JS ... the entire stack needs to be scrapped and replaced with something sensible with a focus on simplicity.

That's flash.

Re:W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns by kagamine on Tuesday September 19, 2017 @03:21AM (#15282449)
> That's flash

Comedy aside, CSS isn't the problem, but if an experienced web-dev can't make a site without learning for 5+ years and then feel like they have no knowledge of web development then we have a problem, and that's where we are now.

The problem with the long list of frameworks and libraries available is that there is no easy way to make a web2.0 site without years and years of learning and then the resulting site is a mish-mash of what works without it being easy to maintain. Sitting here looking at .NET & angularjs 1.x and wondering where it all went wrong (actually, not the.,NET part, that seems to work).

Re:W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns by bonzini on Tuesday September 19, 2017 @02:39PM (#15287547)
What do you mean by "make a site"? I made qemu.org last year with 10-years-old knowledge of web development and, apart from the obviously not-done-by-a-graphics-designer theme, it _is_ a decent site, responsive and with a 2010s-ish look.

99% of websites can be done with either a static generator (lean) or WordPress (somewhat bloated, but really mostly standard libraries that can be cached and/or served by a CDN). The remaining 1% are the really bloated ones and sure they are the ones that we visit all the time (medium, BBC, whatever). But it's certainly possible to make a site with not too much knowledge of web development.

Re:W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns by kagamine on Wednesday September 20, 2017 @02:41AM (#15291314)
edit: ignore the huffy tone this came out in, it wasn't meant that way, early morning.

I was talking about work as a professional developer. We can all 'make a site', there exists any number of solutions for that, CMSes like Wordpress, Drupal etc don't count in this argument unless _you_ wrote Wordpress or Drupal from the ground up. Being a wordpress hack isn't being a developer. You won't ever be asked to write something straightforward in enterprise, you'll need to know at least HTML5 & CSS & angular 1.0 & 2+ (or similar) & docker & gulp/grunt & backend & databases & jenkins & MVC & node/npm & version control & bootstrap (or similar) and and and.

99% of sites outside of a company that makes real money and doesn't just serve a page are sites that aren't what developers actually do at work.

Re:W3C abandons consensus, standardizes DRM, EFF resigns by chris_wot on Tuesday September 19, 2017 @08:20AM (#15283958)
CSS makes semantic markup work. CSS is not the issue, the issue is getting a decent graphical editor that does it well.