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Re:Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015) by mmjaa on Thursday September 14, 2017 @09:48AM (#15247936)
Russia is not invading and destroying foreign sovereign nations around the world. It is protecting its borders and its local territory.

The USA has invaded, and destroyed, far, far more territory, resulting in 100x more human suffering and misery.

Its not a duality - but if you want to be honest about the hostile intentions of nations, you have to look at the most hostile state there is: the USA. The stats are not pretty.

Re:Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015) by Sommersonn on Thursday September 14, 2017 @10:07AM (#15248131)
Nice twisted rhetoric, really.

For a split second I did believed you, that Russia haven't invaded Ukraine, it merely 'protected it's local territory'.

Re:Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015) by mmjaa on Thursday September 14, 2017 @10:14AM (#15248211)
What part of "Russia needs the Black Sea to protect its sovereignty" do you not understand?

What part of "Iraq is essential to the sovereign protection of the borders of the USA" do you .. not understand?

I'm not trying to justify Russia's military action in Ukraine - living quite close to this action, it horrified me. But, on the other hand, I'm not ever going to be compelled to agree with someone who says that the mass destruction of Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen .. and so on .. is vital to the defence of the USA. Because, I know where those places are on a map, and they are nowhere near the USA ...

Re:Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015) by fhood on Thursday September 14, 2017 @11:19AM (#15248889)
> What part of "Iraq is essential to the sovereign protection of the borders of the USA" do you .. not understand?

What are you talking about? Iraq was not mentioned in the original comment.

Also, this "The USA has invaded, and destroyed, far, far more territory, resulting in 100x more human suffering and misery." is grossly untrue. Neither country is free of fault here, but for every Afghanistan, or Iraq, there is a North Korea or East Germany.

Re:Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015) by mmjaa on Thursday September 14, 2017 @11:29AM (#15249004)
The point is, Russian military action in Ukraine was for the purpose of protecting its sovereign borders and access to the Black Sea. While I agree that it was a heinous action, it is more justifiable than any military action the USA has projected, if but for the simple fact that it was close to home - literally on Russias' doorstep.

America, however, projects power around the globe - not for its own protection of sovereign assets, and certainly not as a consequence of needing to defend its sovereign border. Rather, American power projection is done in order to interfere with nations that the USA has decided, for some other reason, mostly psychology, is its enemy.

>"The USA has invaded, and destroyed, far, far more territory, resulting in 100x more human suffering and misery." is grossly untrue.

Sorry, but a lot of the world see it as being very, very true.

Perhaps you should pay more attention to the refugee children walking across Europe to get away from American wars.

Re:Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015) by Sommersonn on Thursday September 14, 2017 @03:03PM (#15251389)
> Russian military action in Ukraine was for the purpose of protecting its sovereign borders and access to the Black Sea.

Without Crimea Russia won't have access to Black Sea? Or it will lose her borders?

Please clarify.

Re:Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015) by ZoeZoeBee on Thursday September 14, 2017 @04:49PM (#15252391)
Are you ignorant to the fact that the port of Sevastopol is host to Russia's Black Sea Fleet? Do you realize that Sevastopol was founded as a Russian naval port in 1783 and that Crimea has been Russian for over 250 years?
Re:Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015) by Sommersonn on Thursday September 14, 2017 @06:33PM (#15253041)
Russia as a country exists only for ~25 years.

Also even it had Crimea for thousand years before, it still won't matter - they've signed numerous international agreement s which stated that Crimea belongs to Ukraine.

Re:Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015) by ZoeZoeBee on Thursday September 14, 2017 @06:36PM (#15253060)
I wish you the best of luck in all that you do
Re:Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015) by AnimalMuppet on Thursday September 14, 2017 @12:52PM (#15249887)
"Protecting its sovereign borders" by stealing from others' sovereign borders? Sorry, not buying it.
Re:Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015) by mmjaa on Thursday September 14, 2017 @01:29PM (#15250294)
I don't agree that Russia should have done what it did to Ukraine, and its territories. No, sir.

But I find the argument that "USA is not bad, because Russia did bad" to be highly specious.

Russia, and the Russians in the region that was invaded, can justify its mis-deeds as protection of its sovereignty.

America, and thus Americans, cannot.

There were no Americans to protect in Iraq. In Afghanistan. In Syria, Yemen, Libya.

Seriously, Americans are liable for some deep, deep shit. Russians, less so.

Re:Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015) by Sommersonn on Thursday September 14, 2017 @03:05PM (#15251419)
>Russia, and the Russians in the region that was invaded, can justify its mis-deeds as protection of its sovereignty. America, and thus Americans, cannot. There were no Americans to protect in Iraq.

And there was no Russians to protect in Crimea, so stop whitewashing Kremlin lies.

Re:Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015) by ZoeZoeBee on Thursday September 14, 2017 @04:44PM (#15252356)
Ummm, Crimea has been majority ethnic Russian for over 100 years, Ukranians weren't even the dominant minority in the region for most of the last two centuries. You really should learn some history before commenting
Re:Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015) by AnimalMuppet on Thursday September 14, 2017 @05:50PM (#15252808)
"Ethnic Russian" != "Russian", though. No matter what ethnicity, they were citizens of Ukraine.

And I completely deny that Russia has the right to speak for ethnic Russians of other nationalities, and to invade their countries on their behalf.

Re:Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015) by ZoeZoeBee on Thursday September 14, 2017 @06:17PM (#15252944)
Lol you completely ignore the fact that the Ukraine as a country did not exist until 1991, and the only reason Crimea was made a part of the Ukraine after the dissolution of the USSR, is because of a fluke of history whereby Crimea was transferred from the Russian Soviet Federation to the Ukrainian Soviet Federation as meaningless token in celebration of 300 years of the Ukraine as a part of the Russian Empire.

Prior to Russo-Turkish war Crimea was a part of the Ottoman Empire, after Russia won that war it conquered Crimea and absorbed it into the fold in 1783. Crimea has not been a traditional part of the Ukraine since before the existence of the United States of America.

Failure to grasp reality does not change the fact that a Crimea filled with ethnic Russians, host to Russia's Black Sea Fleet, in a city founded over 250 years ago by Russia, which holds extreme strategic importance to the nation could never be allowed to fall under the sphere of NATO.

Re:Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015) by ZoeZoeBee on Thursday September 14, 2017 @11:44AM (#15249142)
You might want to brush up on your history, mainly the part where the Ukraine has been part of Russian territory for most of the last 350 years, and while you're reading maybe you'll discover the reason Russia had to act with regards to Crimea.
Re:Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015) by AnimalMuppet on Thursday September 14, 2017 @12:51PM (#15249870)
Had to? No. Chose to.
Re:Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015) by ZoeZoeBee on Thursday September 14, 2017 @01:50PM (#15250556)
Right, they could have made the choice to let their strategic naval base in Crimea fall under the sphere of NATO, despite the obvious problems with that
Re:Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015) by Sommersonn on Thursday September 14, 2017 @06:29PM (#15253013)
It wasn't _their_ naval base in Crimea.
[dead]
Re:Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015) by mmjaa on Friday September 15, 2017 @02:58AM (#15255189)
It truly is astounding, the level of dire ignorance that defenders of America's right to destroy nations, seem to employ in their effort to hinder truth. Astounding, and also, enlightening. No wonder their nation is allowed such free hand to destroy other nations: their citizens truly do not give enough of a damn to gain any insight into the history of the world.
Re:Russian researchers expose U.S. spying program (2015) by Sommersonn on Friday September 15, 2017 @03:39PM (#15260126)
> the Black Sea Fleet has run out of there under the Russian Flag

That was most wonderful comment so far.

So you're not aware that fleet's flag was changed at least 4 times during last 100 years and half of the time it was nothing to do with Russia?