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Re:How to Live Without Google by ekianjo on Thursday September 14, 2017 @08:07AM (#15247092)
> Android -> iOS

this one surprised me to say the least. It's like jumping from the dragon's mouth into the lion's pit. Both are not good options for privacy, you have no knowledge of what Apple collects and what it does with your data either and it basically requires you to have an iTunes account. At least on Android you can install other app stores like Freedroid which are not linked to any major vendor.

Re:How to Live Without Google by fortythirteen on Thursday September 14, 2017 @08:11AM (#15247130)
There is no single good phone option for privacy minded people in the U.S. at the moment, but Apple has definitely shown themselves to be the lesser of two privacy evils.

At least Apple stood up to the FBI when they wanted an encryption backdoor.

Re:How to Live Without Google by lrvick on Thursday September 14, 2017 @08:45AM (#15247360)
Copperhead sells devices that ship open source builds of Android focused on security and privacy without any google server dependencies.

For people willing to install their own operating systems, LineageOS and AOKP also are solid options.

We don't have to choose the lesser of two evils. We just have to be willing to research options that don't have millions to spend on marketing.

Re:How to Live Without Google by pdimitar on Thursday September 14, 2017 @09:25AM (#15247727)
> Copperhead sells devices that ship open source builds of Android focused on security and privacy without any google server dependencies.

You mean Nexus 6P, the device that many coudln't could trust to not drop their Bluetooth connection to their car's audio system? Or the device that suffers random display and sound issues on a hardware level?

> For people willing to install their own operating systems, LineageOS and AOKP also are solid options.

"willing to install their own OS" saved you from trolling here. Need I remind you however how miniscule that audience is? Shouldn't we strive to make privacy available for all mothers and grandmothers out there as well?

> We don't have to choose the lesser of two evils.

Your life might allow you to go live in a cave without technology, mine doesn't. Good to know your idealism is serviceable in your life but you should realize this isn't the case for most of us.

> We just have to be willing to research options that don't have millions to spend on marketing.

Yeah. Right after I finish my work day and when I only need rest and relaxation. Oh wait.

Re:How to Live Without Google by milcron on Thursday September 14, 2017 @02:53PM (#15251261)
Copperhead supports Nexus 5X, Nexus 6P, Pixel, and Pixel XL.
Re:How to Live Without Google by ekianjo on Thursday September 14, 2017 @08:16AM (#15247165)
> but Apple has definitely shown themselves to be the lesser of two privacy evils.

Only for data physically stored on your phone, but you don't know what they do with your data stored/hosted on their cloud services.

Re:How to Live Without Google by marian0_ on Thursday September 14, 2017 @08:18AM (#15247174)
If you care about your privacy you won't upload your stuff to iCloud.
Re:How to Live Without Google by camillomiller on Thursday September 14, 2017 @10:31AM (#15248370)
Well, you shouldn't upload it to any cloud system in general
Re:How to Live Without Google by lou1306 on Thursday September 14, 2017 @07:11PM (#15253243)
I guess he was talking about actual data leaks, iCloud has a pretty bad track record on that front...
Re:How to Live Without Google by ekianjo on Thursday September 14, 2017 @08:20AM (#15247185)
i hope you are aware of this kind of problems: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7455294?start=0&tstart=...
Re:How to Live Without Google by fortythirteen on Thursday September 14, 2017 @08:30AM (#15247256)
I hope you're not using a potential bug as evidence of malfeasance.

There's really no argument here. Google is the world's #1 internet activity-tracking organization.

Apple is a hardware company that has data retention policies roughly somewhere around what one would expect for the pervasiveness of it's technology. I don't have to like either, but I'd be a fool to think that we're talking about equal amounts of intrusion.

Just what Google could do with the same amount of phone tracking, tied to all the other information it gathers from the multitude of other gathering apparatuses it operates makes an Andriod the less privacy minded option.

Re:How to Live Without Google by ekianjo on Thursday September 14, 2017 @08:34AM (#15247286)
> I hope you're not using a potential bug as evidence of malfeasance.

Is it a bug though, or a feature? On Windows 10 regular updates do the exact same thing and revert your privacy settings back to default, as far as I know.

> Just what Google could do with the same amount of phone tracking, tied to all the other information it gathers from the multitude of other gathering apparatuses it operates makes an Andriod the less privacy minded option.

You can use Android outside of the Google ecosystem. I have Firefox as my main browser on Android, and I dont use Google Play stores, while iOS gives you no option to use alternatives.

Re:How to Live Without Google by ocdtrekkie on Thursday September 14, 2017 @08:44AM (#15247353)
In Windows 10, it is also a potential bug, rather than evidence of malfeasance. As someone who works with Windows a lot, proving malicious intent on their part requires solid evidence: We already have tons of solid evidence of incompetence and poorly tested software. ;)
Re:How to Live Without Google by ekianjo on Thursday September 14, 2017 @08:48AM (#15247385)
Is it that hard to keep existing settings, or is it just that there is an obvious incentive for them to revert said settings to spy on you as you use Windows?

If they had nothing to gain, you could claim it's a misunderstanding or a bug, but when there are obvious benefits into letting such things happen, I'd say you should be suspicious as to why it's even occurring.

Re:How to Live Without Google by ocdtrekkie on Thursday September 14, 2017 @09:09AM (#15247559)
This is true, but I think we also see a lot of Windows issues that have no obvious gain for Microsoft, to the extent that it definitely seems like incompetence is a common source for issues over malfeasance. It is possible Microsoft is vastly smarter than I give them credit and has carefully buried their malfeasance in their incompetence, but I don't think we have any evidence of nearly that much cleverness on Microsoft's part any time recently. ;)
Re:How to Live Without Google by doomrobo on Thursday September 14, 2017 @09:35AM (#15247826)
>Is it a bug though, or a feature?

It's a bug.

Re:How to Live Without Google by r3bl on Thursday September 14, 2017 @08:58AM (#15247473)
> At least Apple stood up to the FBI when they wanted an encryption backdoor.

They also gave the FBI the last iCloud backup of the phone (a month before the attack happened), so it's not like they haven't cooperated with the FBI at all in that case. It's just that it wasn't enough to the FBI, and that's where Apple drew the line.

Re:How to Live Without Google by ctdonath on Thursday September 14, 2017 @12:54PM (#15249913)
If they have the data, and can supply the data in readable form, they may be legally obligated to provide it. Not much else you can do at that moment, if you're Tim Cook trying to stay out of prison.

Apple is clearly working toward securing that data so they can't supply it in readable form. Hard to reconcile that with excellent usability & UX, but they're solidly heading that way. Encrypting that iCloud backup such that it [mathematically] cannot be used without the Secure Enclave is surely coming. To wit: "here's all the data we have, only the defendant can unlock it, and no we're not building backdoors in."

Re:How to Live Without Google by ocdtrekkie on Thursday September 14, 2017 @12:30PM (#15249596)
If a company doing business in the US receives a legal warrant from a judge requiring them to turn over information they have access to, pretty much any company has to comply. So this isn't surprising, or even that worrisome that they turned that over. Everyone would.

The trick, of course, to preventing government surveillance is for companies to just not have the data in the first place.

Re:How to Live Without Google by bdibs on Thursday September 14, 2017 @01:52PM (#15250582)
I think that (among other recent events) spurred their recent advancements, making less and less of our data accessible by them at all.
Re:How to Live Without Google by Xoros on Thursday September 14, 2017 @09:14AM (#15247612)
Bah, it's not like if Apple is storing on US soil your fingerprints or your face for ID.

Oh, wait...

Re:How to Live Without Google by hellofunk on Thursday September 14, 2017 @09:24AM (#15247715)
What makes you think Apple stores that information? It probably never leaves your phone.
Re:How to Live Without Google by Xoros on Thursday September 14, 2017 @10:26AM (#15248328)
Yes, I know they stated that when it cames on the iPhone 5 [0]. So they probably not. But they were (and perhaps still are ?) also part of PRISM. So why not be a little paranoid

But I admit my conspiracy theory assumption was written as a statement, sorry about that !

[0] https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2013/09/10Apple-Announces-iPh...

Re:How to Live Without Google by renaudg on Thursday September 14, 2017 @01:03PM (#15250000)
It doesn't leave your phone. Google "secure enclave"...I mean, search for "secure enclave" :)
Re:How to Live Without Google by AstralStorm on Thursday September 14, 2017 @01:13PM (#15250112)
Instead, a customised anonymised Google unique ID does.
Re:How to Live Without Google by lrvick on Thursday September 14, 2017 @08:38AM (#15247310)
I think people forget Google didn't 'invent" Android and that it is an open source project based on Linux with many outside contributors.

There are open source google-free builds of Android like CopperheadOS which focuses on security and privacy. Many of those security improvements even make it into Google Android builds eventually.

We do have some real choices on hardware that happens to ship with Google Android but Apple devices should not be a consideration if one wants to maintain their ability to have choices.

Re:How to Live Without Google by insertnickname on Thursday September 14, 2017 @08:41AM (#15247333)
I think people forget Google didn't 'invent" Android

But they did acquire the company that did.

Re:How to Live Without Google by AstralStorm on Thursday September 14, 2017 @01:14PM (#15250120)
Plus they reworked it a lot and are reworking it all the time.
Re:How to Live Without Google by r3bl on Thursday September 14, 2017 @08:09AM (#15247117)
Well, the article in question is "life without Google". iOS is not Google's. Therefore, it satisfies the point of this article.

While I do agree that Apple is no better at preserving privacy, it doesn't fit the scope of this article.

Re:How to Live Without Google by ekianjo on Thursday September 14, 2017 @08:13AM (#15247144)
This is not the point. The reason why they don't want you to use Google is based on privacy reasons. Quote from the beginning of the article:

> This means they are not only tracking what you search for, they're also tracking which websites you visit, and using all your data for ads that follow you around the internet

Apple may be doing the exact same thing as well, so they should not recommend Apple on the same principle. Otherwise it's just preposterous.

Re:How to Live Without Google by r3bl on Thursday September 14, 2017 @08:30AM (#15247254)
Well, I can guarantee you that Apple doesn't follow you all over the Internet like Google does (edit: and Facebook with its like buttons and commenting platform, probably to lesser extent than Google's analytics and ads). Presumably they're also not making money from your traffic (we can't prove it neither way).

I've gone very far in limiting what Google has on me. But if my goal was simply to ditch Google completely, iOS is a completely valid point. So is Vimeo.

Re:How to Live Without Google by ekianjo on Thursday September 14, 2017 @08:38AM (#15247309)
You are aware that Apple is selling your search requests to Google right?

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/14/google-paying-apple-3-billio...

It seems that you are hardly going out of the loop by searching for stuff on an iOS device. Google still ends up serving the results and collecting information on you. And by default Safari does not block ads that track you either.

Re:How to Live Without Google by grzm on Thursday September 14, 2017 @09:04AM (#15247514)
> You are aware that Apple is selling your search requests to Google right?

This way of stating that Google pays to be the default search engine in Safari is inaccurate at best or disingenuous at worst. Phrasing it as you did makes it sound like Apple is hiding the fact that you're using Google and surreptitiously passing on your search information to Google.

Sure, one could argue that Apple should use a different engine by default and forgo that $3 billion. That certainly would be something. What's the trade off for them? At this point what major search engine doesn't track? (Yes, DuckDuckGo doesn't, and I use it as my default, but I also think people can reasonably disagree whether it's a major search engine, and I also recognize that the results aren't always as good as Google.) Apple does make it dirt simple to change the default, and doesn't nag you after you've changed it.

Re:How to Live Without Google by r3bl on Thursday September 14, 2017 @08:57AM (#15247453)
Nope. In that article, it says that Google is paying them to remain the default search provider (exactly what Mozilla used to do with Firefox).

Definitely different than Apple "selling search requests". If you switch your search provider to anything non-Google, (presumably) Google is not going to get your search requests.

Re:How to Live Without Google by mariusz79 on Thursday September 14, 2017 @08:56AM (#15247444)
We really need some open source OS for smartphones, or rather some smartphones that support anything you throw at them.
Re:How to Live Without Google by jqs79 on Thursday September 14, 2017 @11:48AM (#15249178)
Here's another person looking for an open source OS on mobile phones. Is 1%/30 million users(?) really not enough? All I would like is the ability to make calls, write texts, and perhaps use data occasionally without a multinational corp logging my every packet for eternity/when AI can use it.