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Re:The only safe email is text-only email by Belphemur on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @08:51AM (#15226834)
First step when getting an ip for a server that will be a mail server is to check if the ip is not already blacklisted.

You can always get it unlisted.

After that don't start to send hundred of email by day. You need to build a reputation for your domain and ip.

As the parent comment says, set up directly spf, dkim and dmarc (also arc if you can). Rspamd can help you do that.

I've been running a personal mail server for 5 years with simply following those rules.

Re:The only safe email is text-only email by dozzie on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @08:58AM (#15226881)
I've been running a personal mail server for twice as long with simply following those rules and my e-mail is still tagged as spam in Gmail when it's me who initiates contact (once the other party sends me an e-mail, reply or otherwise, I no longer get tagged as spam).

As I said, it's totally opaque crapshot.

Re:The only safe email is text-only email by orangetowel on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @04:01PM (#15231773)
I'm in a similar boat. I've moved ISPs a few times throughout the years, and each move it takes a few months to finally get things settled. I'm in the US, and had the best luck for deliverability when I was on a Comcast Business account.

My current ISP, a local fiber provider, was not great getting going. Most of the IPs that they have are in at least 1 spam database, and it took a while for the ISP to reach out to the database maintainers themselves. Even then, since they're a small ISP, the IPs are still blacklisted. The ISP wasn't even a company when the IPs were added to these blacklists.

After a few months they were able to assign me an IP that wasn't in a blacklist somewhere. I still randomly have issues with the big providers though - gmail is probably the most annoying. Like dozzie, my SPF, DKIM, and DMARC setups are all valid.

Overall, I really enjoying running my own mail server. Every now and then there are a few annoyances, but it's worth it in the long run.

Re:The only safe email is text-only email by j_s on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @12:31PM (#15228722)
There have been a few discussions regarding deliverability:

Why does Gmail hate my domain? | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9855030

How to Avoid Spam Filters | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10465639

Hotmail | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14210939

ESP | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14201704

If there are others I'd appreciate a link as I try to connect them!

Re:The only safe email is text-only email by cyberpunk on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @10:08AM (#15227362)
Are you using DKIM and SPF properly? I've never had any problems with this (although, I'm not mailing from home ISP ranges)
Re:The only safe email is text-only email by dozzie on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @10:23AM (#15227469)
Yes.
Re:The only safe email is text-only email by cyberpunk on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @10:28AM (#15227509)
That's very strange, then.

I'd recommend trying http://dkimvalidator.com/ to make sure everything is perfect; having proper certs on your MXs seems to help too.

I run a pretty large email infra (~500k/minute) and I'd help you out if I can...

If you're still having problems with all that in place then why don't you just change IPs?

Re:The only safe email is text-only email by dozzie on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @10:34AM (#15227565)
As I said, Gmail is opaque with regard to its spam detection.

As for your help offer, thank you, but I'm good. It's usually other people who want to contact me, I rarely send the first message ever.

Re:The only safe email is text-only email by cyberpunk on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @10:44AM (#15227650)
Hmm well, I've found it to be pretty straightforward, I'm curious why this is happening to you though and there must be a solution...

I mean.. If you get a solid result from dkimvalidator but google is still shitlisting you then I'd definitely consider moving to another host/dc/isp at least.

Depending on your size, it might be best just to make this someone else's problem (if you can) -- like google, o365, etc..

Re:The only safe email is text-only email by e12e on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @11:17AM (#15227966)
The real problem is Google is opaque in dropping such mail in recipients spam folder. Hotmail can sometimes be annoying in this regard too. As far as I've managed neither does the sane thing and add a header that report on how they've divided that "this mail is spam" - so the recipient doesn't have anything to go on either, other than hoping "mark this as bot spam/add to address book/send email/reply to address" help Google/Ms treat it as "not spam".

Maybe it's worse for non-English mail (maybe the statistical models are biased against "not English" even for people whom don't have English as a native language).

But I'm quite convinced google's (and to a lesser extent Hotmail/ms') "magic" spamfiltering is subtly (but annoyingly) broken.

Re:The only safe email is text-only email by dozzie on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @11:11AM (#15227897)
I'm definitely not giving to somebody else my /var/log/mail.log, IMAP/Mutt access, sieve rules, nor ad hoc dedicated aliases for every website account I create. And on top of that, I would land on some US-based server for ease of illegal spying and my mail would be harvested for some advertising crap, all to solve something that is not a problem for me. Not happening.
Re:The only safe email is text-only email by cyberpunk on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @11:22AM (#15228004)
Yep, that's the reason I host my own email also.

I'm working on a guide for setting this stuff up; still WIP [1] -- feedback appreciated!

1: https://medium.com/@cyberpunk_networks/nsa-proof-your-email-...

Re:The only safe email is text-only email by j_s on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @12:40PM (#15228817)
> I would land on some US-based server for ease of illegal spying and my mail would be harvested for some advertising crap

Does this not happen when you send your emails to someone else? Mad props if everyone you email uses encryption!

Re:The only safe email is text-only email by pricechild on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @09:18AM (#15227004)
> You can always get it unlisted.

How do you do that? The vast majority of blocklists I've interacted with have been unwilling to deal with questions, instead responding only that if you fix "something" (not always specified) automated measures will remove it from the list eventually.

In my experience it has also been extremely difficult to deal with people using blocklists. It's easy to find a bunch of people using .tor.dan.me.uk rather than .torexit.dan.me.uk "just to be safe". Frankly, I'm not sure why the former list exists in the first place other than to be an arse? What threats do entry/relay nodes pose to you?

Re:The only safe email is text-only email by cyberpunk on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @10:07AM (#15227354)
I worked for two very large ESPs and never really had many problems with blacklists from a deliverability perspective.

Whenever one of our mailer IPs was blacklisted by one of the big targets (hotmail, gmail, etc) it would only be for 24hours after which I'd put it back into the pools (although, at least initially perhaps for our more reputable clients to warm it back up before letting the more dodgy stuff through it again). If you host your own NS's for the sender domains flipping SPF ips/ranges is not too hard (it's all automated for us, anyway).

The big boys work that way at least in my experience. I'm sure sometimes you'd hit a 'somedomain.foo' domain which is using a blocklist style thing that their (usually inexperienced) sysadmins think prevents them from receiving spam; but they're not worth arguing with. If you're doing email at volume shifting sends to another range for that client is usually 'enough' to get them through if they care that much about that one segment to ask you to do it.

If it's not then we'd usually refund instead of trying to negotiate with such admins.

Honestly though, blacklists have never been an issue for me and I've sent a ridiculous amount of email over the last 10 years...