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Re:Fossils from Morocco complicate the story of modern humans by detritus on Monday September 11, 2017 @11:27AM (#15219228)
Wow. That last bullet point is particularly remarkable to me - both the implied level of 'technological understanding' and presumed foreplanning for significant journeys 30K years back and for the capacity of oral history to record what come today might not be the most pertinent information.

Also quite amusing in the context of contemporary Australia's philosophy where alien plants and animals are concerned! :)

Re:Fossils from Morocco complicate the story of modern humans by yuchi on Monday September 11, 2017 @11:34AM (#15219280)
Citing that article:

> “It suggests that Aboriginal oral traditions may have endured for up to 30,000 years, and lends further weight to the idea that some Aboriginal myths pertaining to gigantic animals may be authentic records of extinct megafauna”

Wow ^ 2

Re:Fossils from Morocco complicate the story of modern humans by pamqzl on Monday September 11, 2017 @03:14PM (#15221347)
I'm always extremely skeptical when someone suggests that oral traditions could possibly have survived for long periods of time. That's twelve hundred generations! Given what we know about the speed at which Chinese Whispers tend to drift, the idea that any story can last 1200 generations is an extraordinary claim that demands extraordinary proof.

Hundreds of Aboriginal tribes had hundreds of contradictory myths on hundreds of subjects. Most of them are verifiably false (e.g. those rocks over there are not, in fact, the remains of three young women who got turned into stone for disobeying their father). Some of them are probably correct by complete accident.

As for gigantic animals... well, they're a pretty common motif in myths and stories all around the world. Maybe it's some distant memory our cultures all have of the larger animals that used to live around here... or maybe it's just because giant animals are cool. In Aboriginal myths, giant animals are often really really giant, because they're used as explanations for geographic features -- e.g. rivers are caused by the meanderings of a giant snake.

Re:Fossils from Morocco complicate the story of modern humans by aaron695 on Monday September 11, 2017 @11:47PM (#15224671)
I wouldn't take it as 'extremely skeptical', it's fact that this is junk 'science'

We can look at story drift even in non primitive societies where they have writing and it's huge within generations.

Re:Fossils from Morocco complicate the story of modern humans by micheljones on Monday September 11, 2017 @09:44PM (#15224114)
Some tribes in north of Australia have verifiable myths about the geography of the lands that have been under the sea off the north of Australia for 6-8 thousand years at least (meaning, the description of the land features matches the sea floor geography).
Re:Fossils from Morocco complicate the story of modern humans by flukus on Monday September 11, 2017 @11:53PM (#15224694)
Has anyone quantified their myths properly? If not then they're just cherry picking.
Re:Fossils from Morocco complicate the story of modern humans by micheljones on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @02:26AM (#15225207)
Do you have any proof that they are just cherry picking?
Re:Fossils from Morocco complicate the story of modern humans by flukus on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @02:43AM (#15225275)
No, I just assume they are until they provide data to prove otherwise. We don't even know if the same tribes were in the same area that long ago.
Re:Fossils from Morocco complicate the story of modern humans by oh_sigh on Monday September 11, 2017 @01:06PM (#15220115)
On a similar timescale, lots of cultures from the middle east have a flood myth, which is thought to be a real event from about 15k years ago.
Re:Fossils from Morocco complicate the story of modern humans by micheljones on Monday September 11, 2017 @01:37PM (#15220376)
I'm sorry, but that statement is very likely incorrect. 15kya was very soon after the last glacial maximum (24-18kya) and sea levels weren't significantly affected by then. The receding of the ice sheets started at cca 18kya, but was going slowly at first and only accelerated after 15kya.

Most of middle east cultures draw the myth from Mesopotamian cultures, whose flood myth most likely refers to the flooding of the Persian gulf (which Eufrat and Tigris drain to currently, but used to be a fertile lowland with multiple rivers) cca 8kya.

https://www.livescience.com/10340-lost-civilization-existed-...

Considering the map in this article, with abundance of rivers across the whole Persian gulf plain, I would suggest that the myth of exile from Eden is also related to it - after the flooding and subsequent move of people upriver between the Eufrat and Tigris there was a need to create irrigation channels to keep the agricultural production up at necessary levels. Creating and maintaining these channels is hard, back-breaking work, and it might have inspired the famous 'By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food' line.

Re:Fossils from Morocco complicate the story of modern humans by kbenson on Monday September 11, 2017 @01:52PM (#15220530)
> Most of middle east cultures draw the myth from Mesopotamian cultures, whose flood myth most likely refers to the flooding of the Persian gulf

I thought the GP was actually referring to this event. Do we have a time frame for that which negates that possibility, because otherwise I'm not sure how your evidence refutes rather than corroborates.

Re:Fossils from Morocco complicate the story of modern humans by flukus on Monday September 11, 2017 @08:28PM (#15223746)
I thought they were referring to the black sea deluge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_hypothesis). Some quick googling didn't reveal much, do we know when the persian gulf flooded?
Re:Fossils from Morocco complicate the story of modern humans by micheljones on Monday September 11, 2017 @09:53PM (#15224148)
No, I was not referring to the Black Sea deluge. That one is responsible for flood myths in Indo-European cultures (and also for the spread of the Indo-European cultures themselves), and it is more recent (6.5kya if I'm not mistaken).

The article I linked clearly states that it was a fertile land basin until 8kya. I decided to ignore kbenson's lack of reading comprehension hiding behind an attempt to insert himself as an arbiter through nitpicking about a thing he obviously knows nothing about, but I see he's not the only one refusing to read the article, so I'll restate my point:

My point of contention is the 15kya date. By 15kya the receding of ice age ice caps has barely started, so 15kya the ocean levels were not affected in any major way. The major geography-changing ocean level rise came a few thousand years later.

The linked article clearly states the following: "Then, about 8,000 years ago, the land would have been swallowed up by the Indian Ocean, the review scientist said." and "The Gulf Oasis would have been a shallow inland basin exposed from about 75,000 years ago until 8,000 years ago, forming the southern tip of the Fertile Crescent, according to historical sea-level records."

Re:Fossils from Morocco complicate the story of modern humans by kbenson on Monday September 11, 2017 @11:07PM (#15224511)
> I decided to ignore kbenson's lack of reading comprehension hiding behind an attempt to insert himself as an arbiter through nitpicking about a thing he obviously knows nothing about

While I see how it's possible you could interpret me as trying to insert myself as and arbiter instead of expressing my own lack of knowledge and asking for clarification, it was fully your own choice to not only decide that was the interpretation you believed as fact, but to then broadcast that negative interpretation as fact to others. A little assumption of good faith goes a long way, and I don't think it's too much to ask for.

Re:Fossils from Morocco complicate the story of modern humans by micheljones on Tuesday September 12, 2017 @02:25AM (#15225200)
You literally didn't read a very short article I linked in the comment you objected to; in that article the date of cca 8kya is mentioned at least twice very clearly.

But like I said, that's ok.

Re:Fossils from Morocco complicate the story of modern humans by micheljones on Monday September 11, 2017 @02:19PM (#15220778)
That's ok.
Re:Fossils from Morocco complicate the story of modern humans by posterboy on Wednesday September 13, 2017 @05:08PM (#15242705)
Maybe their digestive tract had carried the seeds ...