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Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by bww on Monday September 11, 2017 @01:10AM (#15216080)
The medallion system pretends to regulate the taxi industry, but in actuality it’s a scheme that allowed people to buy into a monopoly. This unusual arrangement has insulated the taxi industry from normal market forces at the expense of pretty much everyone living in or traveling to New York.

Riding in a New York taxi is unpleasant and expensive, but since it was a monopoly it had no incentive to do better and there were never any real consequences for failing to provide decent service – even as it became increasingly aggressive in soliciting outrageous tips and jamming advertising down its customers throats.

But it’s not a monopoly anymore and that’s a good thing for New York. I won’t shed a tear for the taxi industry.

Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by djchung23 on Monday September 11, 2017 @01:15AM (#15216103)
Totally agree with you wrt to the taxi industry, but it's the individual stories that are heartbreaking :(

"While the auction has drawn attention to the precipitous fall of the once-mighty taxi industry, it does not reflect the hardship — and heartbreak — of individual owners like Mr. Isac. It is their stories that often get lost in the larger debate over new technology and commutes, and tell of the human cost of the city’s rapidly evolving transportation landscape."

Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by chii on Monday September 11, 2017 @01:30AM (#15216174)
> it does not reflect the hardship ...of individual owners

they bought into a system that really shouldn't have existed. Investments that fail are tragic, but losses of this nature can't really be protected from those who make it (otherwise, there'd be moral hazzard).

Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by SonicSoul on Thursday September 14, 2017 @11:04AM (#15248723)
it's pretty amazing how ignorant people are, and all in the name of intellectual superiority.

you probably have a good job due to all kinds of luck (though im sure you don't think there was any luck) and then quickly judge these people for making a stupid decision. Meanwhile these people have very limited options and buying a medallion was the closest thing they could do as an investment into their future. is it a racket? maybe, but so is the stock market and corporate jobs. just because they are still working out, does not mean they will forever. Much like medallions it's all a myth that will work as long as it's not disrupted by something else. So these people put so much money on the line to buy into this system and work 2-3 shifts/day driving your drunk ass from club to club and all you can do is look back and call them stupid for buying into something that was impossible to predict that would be disrupted so quickly. it's so easy to turn around after a disruption and call anyone in the disrupted industry a fool for buying into "a system that shouldn't have existed"

/end rant.

Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by unlmtd1 on Monday September 11, 2017 @03:06AM (#15216592)
Crying for those poor people who bought into a racket? They lost a bunch of money dealing with criminals. Not sure how it's heartbreaking. Ppl using even slightly dirty combustion engines are committing a crime against everyone else. So they're double criminals. Still heart broken? Iv got a license to kill anyone, emitted by our committee for world order. It's a safe investment. Want in?
Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by totalZero on Monday September 11, 2017 @06:18AM (#15217374)
> Crying for those poor people who bought into a racket?

For those immigrants who bought into a city-regulated industry, yes.

Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by arcbyte on Monday September 11, 2017 @08:21AM (#15217938)
> city-regulated industry

That was the red flag right there

Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by afsina on Monday September 11, 2017 @02:39AM (#15216461)
Agreed. In Turkey, taxi medallions are part of a terrible system. They are extremely expensive in big cities. In many cases, Taxi drivers do not own them. Different drivers work in two or three shifts and pays a predetermined amount to medallion owner (a hefty sum). Sometimes medallions are rented by a third party and he manages the taxi drivers and pays to the top dude.

Government does not allow Uber like systems. Also Taxis are very expensive especially in smaller cities. And no, many does not behave nicely. They are also reckless in traffic.

So we stuck to this monopoly and nobody questions. Why is driving a Taxi a profession in this age of technology? Anybody with decent driving skills can do this yet Taxi drivers are the first to prevent any competition. This pattern is quite noticeable in many other areas of industry. They make restrictions and regulations with good intentions, later it turns to a monster.

Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by KozmoNau7 on Monday September 11, 2017 @05:12AM (#15217121)
"Government does not allow Uber like systems"

Uber is banned in Denmark as well, but this is because there are absolutely no security requirements for Uber drivers, no mandatory first aid traning, nothing.

Proponents of Uber call it a "ridesharing system", but it really is a taxi system, and must abide by the same rules, namely driver training, verified fare metering and other security and fairness measures.

Uber has refused to respect the rules, so they have been banned from operating here, until they can abide by the rules, which are in place mostly for passenger safety and to prevent fraud.

"Why is driving a Taxi a profession in this age of technology? Anybody with decent driving skills can do this"

This can only come from a person who does not know what it actually takes to be a taxi driver (not just a person who happens to drive a taxi, but an actual bona fide taxi driver). There is a certain level of customer service, competency and training involved. You can't just blindly navigate by GPS, you have to know the city, know the traffic, know the shortcuts that a GPS can only guess at.

Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by beagle3 on Monday September 11, 2017 @05:23AM (#15217161)
That used to be the case, but Waze has turned the table on knowing shortcuts/the city/traffic. So we're left with the service aspect, which has basically disappeared from society in the last 20-30 years - I can't find any evidence of it in retail anymore for example.

I do not disagree that it is much more enjoyable to drive around with a taxi driver who knows the city, proud of his work and has a "how may I help you attitude"; I paid 50 quid for a short ride in London 20 years ago and found that quite enjoyable - but if it wan't for the monopoly (which uber has managed to subvert, often illegally), you wouldn't have to wait until 2015 to get "just the transportation and nothing else" - which is what most people actually need.

Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by KozmoNau7 on Monday September 11, 2017 @08:26AM (#15217977)
Services like Uber can generally only exist in places with deficient public transport networks, hence why they never thrived in Copenhagen.
Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by tim333 on Monday September 11, 2017 @09:09AM (#15218193)
Uber does ok in London despite it having decent public transport. Even with decent public transport you don't necessarily want a night bus after your date.
Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by xorcist on Monday September 11, 2017 @06:17AM (#15217367)
Furthermore, Uber does not train its drivers to be taxi drivers or even inform them what training and insurances are required in their line of work.

They advertise this as a way to get a job but when the drivers are fined for driving unlicensed they absolve themselves by claiming it is the responsibility of the driver.

They should not keep complete confidence in this strategy, as they have been sued by their (ex-)drivers for this and settled out of court. (Which may very well be a more lucrative strategy than doing the actual driving, I don't know about that.)

Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by afsina on Wednesday September 13, 2017 @01:25AM (#15235772)
People in US are doing just fine without special "taxi" training. You think Uber drivers does not know short cuts? Rating system is a far better motivator for drivers.

In Turkey and likely in other countries there are regulations for commercial drivers such as they need special health certificates etc but everybody knows it is turns to be just another paper you can buy. If Uber does not follow the regulations you mention, people has a right to choose anyway. The only regulation necessary is to make it deliberate in the cars. A sign telling "This driver does not have first aid training".

Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by mseebach on Monday September 11, 2017 @05:54AM (#15217284)
No, it has nothing to do with first aid training or security, that is simply a misrepresentation of the situation. In London, Uber operates under a regulatory framework that requires these things, and it works very well and has for years. In Denmark, while they did abolish the medallion system (specifically, polical control over the supply of permits), politicians refused to create a similar framework, so the system remains one heavily favouring incumbent taxis.

Crucially, exactly none of requirements in the delta between the new Danish rules and eg. the London minicab rules has anything to do with protecting customers.

Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by jacobush on Monday September 11, 2017 @05:10AM (#15217114)
"Traditional" taxi does not have to be bad. I think (I may be mistaken?) London taxi drivers are quite polite and also have to memorise the geography of London, which I imagine keeps a lot of would be but lower quality drivers out.
Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by SuperGent on Monday September 11, 2017 @05:31AM (#15217201)
Indeed, but those that spent 2-3 years gaining the knowledge[0] and then paying for their cab, and licence are then being usurped by a Uber driver with a GPS and a cheap car. Even with the 'star' system the service levels will drop. [0]https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/licensing...
Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by beagle3 on Monday September 11, 2017 @05:25AM (#15217175)
I agree, But it's still a monopoly that charges monopoly rents, mostly because of "tradition".
Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by bobthepanda on Monday September 11, 2017 @10:03PM (#15224187)
To be fair, the reason the medallion system exists in New York is because road space in Manhattan is limited, and the taxis cause a disproportionate amount of traffic. Traffic conditions have gotten notably worse post-rideshare, although there are a bunch of confounding factors as well that could also explain that.
Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by BurningFrog on Monday September 11, 2017 @01:37AM (#15216194)
> it’s a scheme that allowed people to buy into a monopoly

It is a rather ingenious "free market monopoly hybrid" that I can't think of existing in other fields.

Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by kristopolous on Monday September 11, 2017 @02:04AM (#15216327)
sure there is ... any centrally allocated system of real or artificially scarce resources based on market dynamics works this way. For instance, radio frequencies, water rights, domain names and ticket scalping. In some municipalities liquor licenses, mobile network providers, broadband, and now marijuana licenses work this way too.

I wouldn't be surprised if banks, cosmetologists and realtors were like this too, but I don't know enough about them.

Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by adamlett on Monday September 11, 2017 @02:57AM (#15216550)
Not to mention the music industry or really any industry whose business model is enabled by copyright.
Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by em3rgent0rdr on Monday September 11, 2017 @04:45AM (#15217008)
More broadly: not just copyright but intellectual-property in general, which is government-granted monopoly protection.
Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by adamlett on Monday September 11, 2017 @06:57AM (#15217530)
You're right in principle, and I thought about writing the same. But trademarks are IP too, and I have a hard time seeing how this applies to them. I also think copyright is far worse than patents for a few reasons. Firstly, patents do expire, whereas copyright never seem to. Secondly, patents disputes are mostly between businesses, which mean the forces are roughly equal on either side. Copyright disputes are sometimes between businesses, but more often than not, they are between businesses that hold the copyright on one side, and consumers on the other. And in those cases, the balance of power is tilted massively in favor of the right’s holders. Which I am guessing goes a long way to explain why the copyright period keeps getting extended.
Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by ekianjo on Monday September 11, 2017 @02:07AM (#15216337)
many countries grant pharmacists the monopoly of selling drugs and limit the number of pharmacies per area. This kind of system is used across many fields.
Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by njarboe on Monday September 11, 2017 @02:12AM (#15216356)
Medical school?
Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by skookumchuck on Monday September 11, 2017 @03:03AM (#15216579)
Yes. A fixed number of students are accepted, controlled by the AMA.
Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by chimeracoder on Monday September 11, 2017 @07:37PM (#15223446)
> Yes. A fixed number of students are accepted, controlled by the AMA.

No. The AMA does not have any control over how many students are accepted to medical school. The AAMC does, and there technically is a cap, but they've been intentionally increasing it steadily for over a decade in order to increase the supply of doctors.

However, even that's irrelevant, because the number of people graduating medical school isn't a bottleneck for the supply of physicians - residency programs are. There are far more doctors than there are residency slots, and the AAMC doesn't control residency positions. So whatever cap they have at this point doesn't affect anything other than the number of people who graduate medical school and end up having to get a job in a different field.

Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by njarboe on Friday September 15, 2017 @12:53AM (#15254733)
Do you have any idea what limits residency positions? They don't pay like a doctor but they do doctor like stuff. I would think that hospitals would want a lot of them. Sort of like how in science post-docs are hired everywhere because they are just the same as a research scientist, but you can pay them less.
Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by chimeracoder on Friday September 15, 2017 @09:07AM (#15256791)
> Do you have any idea what limits residency positions? They don't pay like a doctor but they do doctor like stuff. I would think that hospitals would want a lot of them. Sort of like how in science post-docs are hired everywhere because they are just the same as a research scientist, but you can pay them less.

It's the other way around. Resdiency positions are extraordinary expensive to offer - remember that this is where doctors actually receive their clinical training. Medicare funds them, because otherwise hospitals would have no incentive to offer them (they would lose money on each resident).

Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by malandrew on Monday September 11, 2017 @02:09PM (#15220697)
Seriously!? We have a quota limit how many people can become doctors?
Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by skookumchuck on Monday September 11, 2017 @05:29PM (#15222530)
Yes. This is why there is such intense competition to get into med school.
Re:Taxi Medallions, Once a Safe Investment, Now Drag Owners ... by hkmurakami on Monday September 11, 2017 @02:43AM (#15216470)
Dentistry.

Housing as a cartel.