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Re:At Google, Employee-Led Effort Finds Men Are Paid More Th... by michaelt on Saturday September 09, 2017 @10:37AM (#15207261)

  Every year when we did promotions we'd start out with a
  zero-sum raise pool.
Well, there's your problem.

If I'm an employee and I do some great work that brings the company an extra $X per annum, and I ask for a raise of $0.1X the company is welcome to take that out of the $X I made them.

If the company decides to instead take the $0.1X from someplace else, that's their decision not mine - claiming raises are zero-sum is just bullshit to make people feel guilty about asking for a raise.

Re:At Google, Employee-Led Effort Finds Men Are Paid More Th... by tttt5 on Saturday September 09, 2017 @01:52PM (#15208215)
Just from my limited experience, it's possible for people to be working on multi-year projects that may not bring in much or any money but which have the strong potential to grow. On the flip side, it's possible for an employee to claim he's 'bringing in' $X while he's simply maintaining work that was developed by someone else. Trying to to draw a line from revenue to your work is something you like to do if it is favorable and not if it's not (I've been in both positions). OTOH raises are about retaining people and the relative differences between who gets a raise is usually about who's more important to the future of the group and / or who is harder to retain / replace.
Re:At Google, Employee-Led Effort Finds Men Are Paid More Th... by manyxcxi on Saturday September 09, 2017 @04:31PM (#15209026)
I'm not totally in love with the notion, and now that I'm in my own company we do not do it that way at all. However, by giving the manager a pool, my old company was empowering that manager to spend the money as they saw fit.

There was no stack ranking or any other political BS. Here's your pool, do with it as you wish. So, if you ask me, zero sum sucks, but it at very least lets the person closest to the action get a chance to make a call.

It also prevented the managers from just handing out raises for no real reason. For example, you've got two people that have had great years and another that's just been treading water. If you give them the raise you want to, you're going to wind up with nothing left for the third. With an unlimited sum of money at your disposal you may kick that person a percent or two to prevent hurt feelings, now you've got to make the hard call.

Or, if that third person also had a good year and you want to fight for them, you can run it up the chain and shake out a few percent for them. It was always there for the asking if you felt like going through some effort to get it.

So yeah, there's better ways to do it, but it's also not completely awful either.

Re:At Google, Employee-Led Effort Finds Men Are Paid More Th... by bedhead on Saturday September 09, 2017 @10:53AM (#15207348)
Well, it's also a financial reality...
Re:At Google, Employee-Led Effort Finds Men Are Paid More Th... by michaelt on Saturday September 09, 2017 @11:21AM (#15207481)
If my efforts have made my employer an extra $X per annum, the financial reality is the company has an extra $X per annum.

We can debate how that $X should be divided between workers, executives, creditors, shareholders and reinvestment. But there's no "financial reality" that means workers' share has to be zero.

Every organisation has rules and budgets and procedures, but they're made by people and if they don't work right they can be fixed by people. It's not like the CEO received the budget from God on stone tablets on a mountain 2000 years ago.

If I wanted to work in some calcified bureaucracy where rules were more important than outcomes and worker performance was irrelevant, I wouldn't be working in the private sector!

Re:At Google, Employee-Led Effort Finds Men Are Paid More Th... by err4nt on Saturday September 09, 2017 @12:36PM (#15207800)
Ultimately money is finite - no matter how much you have or how it's allocated. What if there literally isn't any more money left to be given by the time they're done giving raises?
Re:At Google, Employee-Led Effort Finds Men Are Paid More Th... by kthejoker2 on Saturday September 09, 2017 @01:01PM (#15207911)
You're missing their point entirely. If my efforts made the company an additional $10,000 per year above and beyond what they would have made, they can offer me a raise of up to $10,000 without affecting any one else's chances at bonuses or raises.
Re:At Google, Employee-Led Effort Finds Men Are Paid More Th... by manyxcxi on Saturday September 09, 2017 @04:39PM (#15209053)
Not if your efforts were wiped out by a project that went sideways and lost 20K on another side of the company.

It's also highly unlikely that your singular effort created 10K more profit. That 10K was likely the culmination of a number of people who had varying levels of participation in the effort.

Unless you're working at a company that tracks your hours to every single possible project you're working on, there's often a huge blind spot as to where exactly your effort is going as it pertains to revenue. Unless your in professional services or some other type of billable position, then I actually agree with your notion to a degree...

With regards to people in billable positions, I once workthink d for a company that did something I really thought was neat. At the end of every quarter they'd announce a profit sharing rate based off of whatever it was that defined the rate. Since we were all billable this rate was at $X per billable hour. So if you billed more, you participated in a greater share of the revenue. I frequently saw $10-20K quarterly bonuses based entirely off my effort. It was quite motivating.

Because the profit sharing was the same rate for everyone and took in to account the entire company's financials, you were assured that your billable efforts were going to be rewarded on the same scale as the next person.

Re:At Google, Employee-Led Effort Finds Men Are Paid More Th... by err4nt on Sunday September 10, 2017 @12:41PM (#15212956)
And if you make a mistake that costs the company $10k is it also okay to withhold $10,000 from your pay that period too? You seem to be tying reward _directly_ to profit, while ignoring the risk involved. Usually the higher the risk, the higher the opportunity for reward - but if it fails, the business needs to absorb the risky loss and insulate the workers as much as possible. This means that when there IS a big profit, part of that profit needs to be kept for future losses too in order to smooth things out so they don't have to do layoffs if they have a bad month.

If you fly too close to the sun and your weekly pay directly relates to the value you put in that week you'd might have job security but you'd have absolutely no income security!

Re:At Google, Employee-Led Effort Finds Men Are Paid More Th... by lunchables on Monday September 11, 2017 @10:47AM (#15218897)
And what if the company still had huge losses that year? Your singular contribution doesn't determine the overall fiscal state of the organization.